I own and handle loaded pistols all the time. I dont "play" with guns. There is a big difference in between playing with and correctly handling a loaded weapon. Often the difference is the attitude, purpose and education in proper firearm handling. The same applies with food and drink.
So, tell me about this "properly handling" beer, vodka and whiskey.
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Do Not Argue With Idiots, they will just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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So, tell me about this "properly handling" beer, vodka and whiskey.
I already posted about my convictions regarding alcoholic beverages in this thread. Please, go back a page or two and read my comments.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. - Benjamin Franklin
-Commit2013-
I think it is problematic to say that all drinking is sin because we have enough scripture to see that consumption of some alcohol was within a certain acceptance in the NT.
However there are things that ought to be understood before leaning on those passages to come to the conclusion that drinking is fine.
First, being drunk is a sin. period. there is no way around that. if the alcohold affects your judgement, you are under its influence. period. Scientists are clear that you are affected by it far before you are legally drunk. period.
Second, When Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach, what he was saying was "take you stinking medicine dude, your sick" We know this because we have the writings of the two Pleny's. At that particular time wine was used as a treatment for various ailements.
Least you think that this means you can go get a nice Merlot because you dont "peel-so-purdy-dood", you need to think again.
Pleny tells us that these medicinal wines were brewed v ery particularly for the various alements they were used to treat. So something for some stomach issue was nowhere near a wine used to treat a blood issue, or a cancer, or headaches etc... and one should also note that medicine at the time was quite inneffective...
So. No. dont drink wine because Paul told Tim to imbibe. And dont drink wine because you have a tummy ache... unless you have the recipe for a medicinal wine for stomach aches from 2k years ago....i bet it tastes bad...
Now i will say that it is utter hogwash to sugges that wine in the bible was some "non-alcoholic" version. that aint true. making wine was the way they preserved the fruit of the vine. and the alcohol was very necessary to survival (more on that in a sec)
The next thing you should know is that the typical Roman or Greek or Jew or Syrian etc would be aghast at the way wer consume wine today. They didnt drink wine to drink wine. They drank it because drinking water would kill you. dead. period. Wine was never consumed straight. In fact we know from Pleny the Elder that there was a raging debate between the Romans and the Greeks because one group mixed their wine 1 part wine to 3 parts water. the other went 1 part wine to 4 parts water.
I am not sure which group was which, but the one mixing in 4 parts water thougth the 3 parters were just a bunch of drunks. No kidding. NOBODY drank their wine straight. they cut it. In fact, the purpose of the wine was to make the water safe for drinking. Thats why they drank so much wine. they had to, to not get disintary.
So, this is what i teach. I dont need to call drinking alcohold a "sin" to be able to clearly show that the bibles use of the material was out of a necesity that simply does not exist today, and considering the biblical stand on drunkeness there simply is no need.
I have no need go beyond Pauls position that all things may be lawful, but not all things are expedient.
so if you get stuck in the jungle with no way to make fire to purify water, but you have a nice riesling, use it to keep your drinking water safe. 1 part to 4 parts should do it.
if you get sick and your doctor prescribes medicine that contains alcohol, it is utterly reasonable to take the medicine. Especially if there is no alternative.
Never, ever allow anything to be an excuse to abuse medicine...that will distroy your life.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Werent they socially drinking at Jesus's first miracle?
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I'm unchained, unblinded, unparallel minded As I refined to combine with the finest finds of Titan
Vicious like lightning, Vikings enticed by full moons on islands Filled with the loot that eluded troops of previous tyrant
I just had a very recent discussion over this with my sister.
Considering the ol' wwjd... Although he did turn water into wine 2000 years ago, I'm far from convinced that he would be tipping back a bottle of Bud Light, anymore than he would be tipping back a shot of Jack or Vodka (even if he enjoyed the taste of either and wasn't trying to get lit), at a family barbecue or whatever here in 2014, because of the many negative things that are attributed with them. However, I do realize there are many differing opinions, and personal conviction should respectfully remain just that. (Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't). I ended up sending her this(couldn't pass it up):
__________________ As for me, may I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because of that cross, my interest in this world has been crucified, and the world’s interest in me has also died.- Gal. 6:14
I think it is problematic to say that all drinking is sin because we have enough scripture to see that consumption of some alcohol was within a certain acceptance in the NT.
However there are things that ought to be understood before leaning on those passages to come to the conclusion that drinking is fine.
First, being drunk is a sin. period. there is no way around that. if the alcohold affects your judgement, you are under its influence. period. Scientists are clear that you are affected by it far before you are legally drunk. period.
Second, When Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach, what he was saying was "take you stinking medicine dude, your sick" We know this because we have the writings of the two Pleny's. At that particular time wine was used as a treatment for various ailements.
Least you think that this means you can go get a nice Merlot because you dont "peel-so-purdy-dood", you need to think again.
Pleny tells us that these medicinal wines were brewed v ery particularly for the various alements they were used to treat. So something for some stomach issue was nowhere near a wine used to treat a blood issue, or a cancer, or headaches etc... and one should also note that medicine at the time was quite inneffective...
So. No. dont drink wine because Paul told Tim to imbibe. And dont drink wine because you have a tummy ache... unless you have the recipe for a medicinal wine for stomach aches from 2k years ago....i bet it tastes bad...
Now i will say that it is utter hogwash to sugges that wine in the bible was some "non-alcoholic" version. that aint true. making wine was the way they preserved the fruit of the vine. and the alcohol was very necessary to survival (more on that in a sec)
The next thing you should know is that the typical Roman or Greek or Jew or Syrian etc would be aghast at the way wer consume wine today. They didnt drink wine to drink wine. They drank it because drinking water would kill you. dead. period. Wine was never consumed straight. In fact we know from Pleny the Elder that there was a raging debate between the Romans and the Greeks because one group mixed their wine 1 part wine to 3 parts water. the other went 1 part wine to 4 parts water.
I am not sure which group was which, but the one mixing in 4 parts water thougth the 3 parters were just a bunch of drunks. No kidding. NOBODY drank their wine straight. they cut it. In fact, the purpose of the wine was to make the water safe for drinking. Thats why they drank so much wine. they had to, to not get disintary.
So, this is what i teach. I dont need to call drinking alcohold a "sin" to be able to clearly show that the bibles use of the material was out of a necesity that simply does not exist today, and considering the biblical stand on drunkeness there simply is no need.
I have no need go beyond Pauls position that all things may be lawful, but not all things are expedient.
so if you get stuck in the jungle with no way to make fire to purify water, but you have a nice riesling, use it to keep your drinking water safe. 1 part to 4 parts should do it.
if you get sick and your doctor prescribes medicine that contains alcohol, it is utterly reasonable to take the medicine. Especially if there is no alternative.
Never, ever allow anything to be an excuse to abuse medicine...that will distroy your life.
Hey thanks for the background information! I always wondered how they would have preserviced juice without it fermenting. Guess that answers it. Every year we make grape juice but of course the mason jars seal up. And if they don't we throw those ones out or drink them right away.
I dont agree with the statement that drinking water would kill you dead.People have been digging wells for thousands of years.Yes I know there are diseases that have been spread through tainted water during certain outbreaks.How many of you have older family that had a old well back in the day?Did not even Jesus ask the woman at the well for a drink?It doesn't mention him adding a few shots from a hip flask...and yes the wine was alcoholic back then.Grape juice ferments quickly and has to be treated with pasturization to stop the fermentation process.The man who started Welches Grape juice used the pasturization process to market non alcoholic grape juice in the 1800's . More interesting to note is that before wine increased in popularity mead was more commonly consumed.There are records that show mead being fermented as far back as 5000BC.Mead is created with honey...the yeast consumes the sugar inside the honey and the byproduct from that process is alcohol.Because honey is so sweet a higher alcohol content can be achieved than wine fermentation.We are talking 45% vs around 15%. Mead was also used as a suspension medium for herbs and medication...the sweetness would mask the bitter taste and also act as a preservative.
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Blessed are the merciful for they SHALL obtain mercy.
I know of a Godly saint that when her son was so very sick with a strain of Asian flu, she took Jack Daniels, lemons and peppermint and made him a "toddy". It cut the phlegm, broke his fever and let him sleep. Kid said it was goooood.
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Do Not Argue With Idiots, they will just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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Well if society collapsed and modern pharmaceuticals were not available it may be something we go back to.Ive done some light reading on the subject as far as using medicinal herbs ect.Im by no means a tree hugging hippie...Its just that I work in the medical field and in EMS we have to work with what we have and in poor conditions sometimes so my mind is constantly running scenarios of how I would treat certain situations if I didnt have the right meds or tools and had to go old school.
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Blessed are the merciful for they SHALL obtain mercy.
I got drunk the first time at 14. Many times after that. When I came to Christ at 20 and started reading scripture I noticed he made wine so I figured I could "social drink" and be ok.
One night with my cousins I overdid it and wound up drunk. I realized I was drinking to much. I did the same thing soon after. I told myself Ok I will not drink more than 2 beers. That worked for a while and then I noticed I could feel it after just two.
I actually went down to one then down to none as far as "social drinking". So since 1975 I have never drank socially. I do have a bottle of wine in the frig right now. Drinking alcohol is not a sin. Getting drunk is. Have not been since 1975.
I think I bought that bottle of wine 6 or 8 months ago and its not empty yet.
But I understand that many could not take a drink here and there and be ok. If they cant let them abstain. I certainly don't go around encouraging anyone to drink.
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