Just Typing Truth ...

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Psalm 119: 1-16

Proverbs 3

This is all good, but it is still OT. Jesus came to fulfill the law, with the law of love. As Aquila has shown the law of love is still stronger than the OT law of rules.

The very fact that the very writers of these passages quoted failed God should be an example to what is being said. While David is said to be a man after God's heart, that did not stop him from the ups and downs in his life, even to committing adultery.

And while Solomon started out good, he let his wives lead him astray from God in his later years.

My testimony is much like Aquila's, so I can attest to what he is saying. I will use my parents as an example. While they love God based on the rules of their church, they also love people based on the rules of their church also. What I mean by that is, if you do not live by the rules of their church, in their eyes you must not love God. It is all based on outer works. It does not matter, if you love God, don't steal, commit adultery, don't lie, love your neighbor as yourself etc. If as a women you wear pants, you must not love God, because you are not in line with the rules as their church teaches.

This was the very thing I believe Christ condemned the Pharisee for. Not the extra rules, but the judging of others that did not keep the rules as they deemed necessary. This is what I believe Paul addresses to the Romans in chapter 14.

[Amanah]

So do you feel that children should not be exposed to the bible at all as it might hinder their relationship with God?

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I don't know if what I have to contribute to this thread will apply or not. But I'll share it.

I remember a few years ago when I was attending a UPCI church the focus was on our "Apostolic Identity". Sermons were focused on the rejection of "seeker sensitive", the "relevant movement", etc. It was basically a push to fall in love with holding the traditional Apostolic standards and patterns of worship.

What troubled me was... shouldn't we seek our "identity" in Jesus? Shouldn't HE be our model and example regardless of context? It seemed like they were so caught up with being "Apostolic" that I felt like Jesus would be sitting in the back watching the clock and waiting for the service to be over. It was all about "us"... not about "Him".

I was born again at 13 years old. That was 28 years ago. With every twist and turn my life has taken (some for the better and some for the worse) I've never lost my faith in Jesus. Even when I was "backslidden" I could not deny that I felt Him watching over me always. I couldn't run far enough to get away. I couldn't drink anything strong enough to numb me from feeling Him. I couldn't find a sin that would make Him just leave me alone... and I tried quite a few really bad ones (and a couple really good ones ). It was as though if I decided to dive head first into Hell... He'd already be there waiting on me before I landed. After I became so worn out and battered from my own battle to escape... I just had to surrender. After it all I asked "Why?" I felt the impression of the Spirit say, "Because I love you." It was over. He won the war.

Somewhere I found a relationship with Him that I couldn't shake even after I tried. At 13 years old, I was born again of the water and Spirit. I couldn't tell you much about doctrine. In fact, I didn't even known what made Apostolics different from other Christians beyond the obvious fact that we dressed funny and liked to run and dance in church. And honestly, I didn't even know that I should care... or that there was even a debate. Being Apostolic was "okay", but it wasn't anything I cared much about or thought was all that important. I can't describe it any other way than to say...

I simply fell in love with Jesus.

He became my everything. I couldn't get enough prayer time, I couldn't read enough of my Bible. I wanted to be in church every time the doors were open. Everywhere I went, the name of Jesus was sure to be part of my conversation with whoever I was talking to. Was I a perfect kid? Nope. I'm still not. But I knew He was perfect. I knew that He loved me. And as a result, I loved Him more than anything. And whenever I sinned...it broke my heart. It still does. And every time He forgave me, I felt my trust in Him and my love for Him grow. And even today, every time He forgives me, my love and trust grows. I could ramble forever on this, so I'll try to cut it short.

I fell in love with Jesus.

Could it be that falling in love with being Apostolic... isn't enough?
Could it be that falling in love with various standards or styles... isn't enough?
Could it be that falling in love with the church... isn't enough?
Could it be that falling in love with doctrine... isn't enough?
And dare I say it... but... could it be that falling in love with your pastor or youth leaders... isn't enough?

When I see kids drift... I can't help but wonder... do they love Him? I mean, do they really, really, LOVE Him?

If I were to see this in my son as he grew older, the only real advice I'd have for him is... fall in love with Jesus... and everything else will work itself out.

Maybe we need a fresh baptism of the reality of Jesus, a reality we can fall in love with all over again.

Maybe I'm way out there. Please excuse me if I'm just rambling silliness.

Excellent post.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Amanah

So do you feel that children should not be exposed to the bible at all as it might hinder their relationship with God?

The Bible? Not at all. Mans interpretation of the bible, most definitely. What we don't seem to see, is that we are so wrapped up in traditions, we don't know what is the word and what is mans interpretations.

The ones that gave the ministry of Christ and the early church the most problems were the religious of that day. Those that thought they had the best intentions, yet had added to God's word their own traditions.

Take just one thing, the Sabbath day. God only said to do no work and rest. These religious men had added, and defined the meaning they had to write a whole book on how one must keep the Sabbath day.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

The Bible? Not at all. Mans interpretation of the bible, most definitely. What we don't seem to see, is that we are so wrapped up in traditions, we don't know what is the word and what is mans interpretations.

The ones that gave the ministry of Christ and the early church the most problems were the religious of that day. Those that thought they had the best intentions, yet had added to God's word their own traditions.

Take just one thing, the Sabbath day. God only said to do no work and rest. These religious men had added, and defined the meaning they had to write a whole book on how one must keep the Sabbath day.

All I said was that we should keep his Word, I offered no interpretation whatsoever.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Psalm 119: 1-16

Proverbs 3

It is amazing how the word does things without us doing anything.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by n david

Stupid youth leaders! I mean, c'mon! These guys are so dumb. D. U. M. B. Dumb!

As a former youth minister for about 15 years, I get so sick of seeing posts like this. I also am tired of "bash the worship leader" threads, as I spent nearly 20 years leading worship.

Perhaps if parents weren't so lazy and if father's conducted their role as spiritual leaders of the home, instead of passing it off to their wives, perhaps then kids wouldn't be such carnal, entertainment driven brats! But dad's are too busy chasing money or playing golf and mom's are too busy on FB or Pinterest, and both simply pay for a phone, ipad, Netflix, etc to entertain their kids so they won't have to. They dress up nice and praise God on Sunday, but don't mention Him during the week. They don't pray or have devotions together, but will complain that the youth minister and youth group isn't keeping their carnal kid spiritual.

The lights are the least of the problems. Don't blame the lights on the kids being carnal.

That's just stupid.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

This is all good, but it is still OT.

Where did Jesus or the apostles ever say "Well, that's all fine and dandy, but it's still old testament. We got us a new set of books now, so..."????

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Where did Jesus or the apostles ever say "Well, that's all fine and dandy, but it's still old testament. We got us a new set of books now, so..."????

What may not be taken into consideration is that Jesus exclusively taught and preached from the Old Testament library, plus Deuterocanonical books. What we consider as New Testament wasn't circulated until around 50 A.D..

[Scott Pitta]

Few of our teens ever became adult voting members of our local church. This is a long term trend (10 years plus).

It had nothing to do with who the youth pastor was. The music had no impact on teens becoming adult believers in our local church.

For us, in our local situation, it reflects a cultural process. Youth group membership seems to end when students either get their drivers license or when they graduate from high school.

The drivers license means students can drive to work. After the license, the part time job comes and work interferes with church attendance.

For other students, youth group is for teens. Like high school, or scouting. Students transit out of it when they become adults.

Other students quit church when they graduate and move to college. Other students join the military. Others move for other reasons.