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  #41  
Old 01-12-2018, 05:45 PM
thephnxman thephnxman is offline
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Re: Do angels have free will?

His NAME is Jesus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
(a) Side question: is it possible the Prince of Persia is an angelic being, in the kingdom of God,
who saw things differently than Gabriel, thus requiring an intervention from Michael?
(b)Such things happen among Christians, is it not possible among angels as well?
Praise Him Brother.

I believe that the “…prince of the kingdom of Persia…” is definitely an angelic
being; however, I believe he DOES NOT belong to the angels in God’s kingdom;
rather, to those “…that kept not their first estate…”. As Goliath was then for the
Philistines, as that angel can be considered to be for the kingdom of Persia: having
dominion over the spirits of “…powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this
world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”


The angel Gabriel left the Eternal realm to enter the temporal realm to help
Daniel, but was impeded by the angel (prince) that ruled over the Persian
kingdom…where Cyrus was king.

(b) “Such things happen among Christians” because there is a prince over the
kingdom of the U.S., that has domain over powers, rulers of the darkness of
this world, and against spiritual wickedness in high places! Or have you not
noticed the foolishness that takes place all around us?

Brother Villa
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  #42  
Old 01-14-2018, 01:10 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Do angels have free will?

One of the messages of Daniel is that the Most High rules the nations. Therefore it seems more likely that the Prince of Persia is a subordinate territorial manager of the international government of God than that he is a rogue tyrant, much less a territorial manager of an international government of a rebellious archangel.

In Revelation God seems to be calling the shots as far as territorial spirits are concerned (see Rev 9 for example).
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  #43  
Old 01-14-2018, 02:48 PM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Do angels have free will?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
One of the messages of Daniel is that the Most High rules the nations. Therefore it seems more likely that the Prince of Persia is a subordinate territorial manager of the international government of God than that he is a rogue tyrant, much less a territorial manager of an international government of a rebellious archangel.

In Revelation God seems to be calling the shots as far as territorial spirits are concerned (see Rev 9 for example).
amen.
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  #44  
Old 01-14-2018, 06:38 PM
houston houston is offline
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Re: Do angels have free will?

Maybe the idea of demons ruling over nations comes from the idea that the devil is the prince of the power of the air, the prince of this world.
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  #45  
Old 01-14-2018, 08:21 PM
thephnxman thephnxman is offline
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Re: Do angels have free will?

His NAME is Jesus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by houston View Post
Maybe the idea of demons ruling over nations comes from the idea that the devil is the prince of the
power of the air, the prince of this world.
Good Question.

How would you interpret Eph 6?
Just who is wrestling "...not against flesh and blood, but against principalities,
against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual
wickedness in high places."
?
Are those "powers" not already defeated? Is that scripture written for the past, or
present age? And is Rev 6, written for the present or future age?

Brother Villa
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  #46  
Old 01-15-2018, 10:53 AM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Do angels have free will?

If we use "fallen angels" to determine if angels have free will not not, I have come to the conclusion that there is not a lot of straight forward information on fallen angels in the scripture. The passages below which are used to support fallen angels are somewhat vague on the subject.

Job 2:1 - Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

John 8:44 - Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

2 Corinthians 4:4 - In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2 Corinthians 11:14 - And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Ephesians 6:12 - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

James 4:7 - Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

1 Peter 5:8 - Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

2 Peter 2:4 - For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

1 John 3:8 - He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Jude 1:6 - And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Jude 1:6-7 - And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Revelation 12:7-9 - And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels . . .
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  #47  
Old 01-15-2018, 11:06 AM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Do angels have free will?

John 8:44 proves the devil is not a fallen angel. From THE BEGINNING he was a murderer - he ALWAYS was so. He abode or dwelt not in the truth - from the BEGINNING he was a murderer and did not dwell in the truth.

Abode means to dwell, people assume it means "to remain for a time", so they read it and interpret it to mean "he did not remain in the truth' as if he once was in the truth but at some point left it. That is not what it is saying, though. It is saying he did not DWELL in the truth.

And thus, "the devil is a fallen angel" story collapses under the weight of the word.
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  #48  
Old 01-15-2018, 11:22 AM
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Scott Pitta Scott Pitta is offline
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Re: Do angels have free will?

Do they have freewill ?

No, they must pay for it.

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  #49  
Old 01-15-2018, 11:25 AM
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Amanah Amanah is offline
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Re: Do angels have free will?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Pitta View Post
Do they have freewill ?

No, they must pay for it.

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  #50  
Old 01-15-2018, 11:54 AM
Barb Barb is offline
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Re: Do angels have free will?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
That doesn't prove they have free will, though.
If choosing to rebel against God doesn't prove they have free will, what does? What else are you looking for? They chose, and they chose unwisely...
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