1: Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
2: Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
Mens traditions tell us all they had was word of mouth. Luke says there were many eyewitnesses, ministers of the word who wrote these things down. I believe Luke.
Be careful of Rob Bell. He has some interesting things to say, but he almost takes them to the extreme. He said some things in a youth worker's conference that really disturbed me. He is a major leader in the "Emerging Church" movement, and some of their stuff is a little scary. They basically say that anything goes. No rules at all. I can't go along with some of that.
Sherri,
Please do not be offended by this question! I ask the question because of the consternation you have confessed to feeling when you have been accused of the same by those more conservative than you.
Based on your comments above, do you have somewhat of an understanding of why the move that you and Eddie made long ago caused those more conservative than you to feel about you the way you feel about Rob Bell?
As has been said by many on AFF, each of is someone's conservative and someone else's liberal.
Yes, I was not disputing anything about things going "both ways" and I, too, speak from experience.
I wasn't speaking about those who talk about love, grace, and mercy...I mentioned the "love" chapter to say that there sometimes is so much emphasis on doctrine and not enough love. (not just in preachers, but church members).
Doctrine for doctrine's sake without the love, grace and mercy doesn't mean anything. All of the grace, mercy, and love without sound doctrine doesn't mean anything either. I agree it goes both ways.
Jane,
I always thought manifesting the Love of God that is shed abroad in our hearts WAS a doctrine. In fact, is it possible to present sound doctrine if it is not presented in the context of I Cor. 13?
But who told you that? Were you there? Luke said EYEWITNESSES wrote these things down. He never spoke against it just added to what had been done.
At what time did the eyewitnesses right these things down, when Luke was writing his Gospel.
Let me give you some insight into how this worked:
Mark's Gospel was taken as Mark followed Peter around and recorded what he taught about Jesus
Luke and Matthew are synoptics, some stories, some scholars believe Matthew was written first and Luke borrowed heavily from him. Some believe that both got their materials from a source called Q, German for source or spring, which most likely was eyewitnesses oral statements that circulated in the early church.
But they did not have a Bible like we do today, much of what they depeneded upon was oral teachings that circulated among the early churches, it wasn't until later that the Gospels were written and Paul's letters passed from church to church.
Look this does not diminish the inspiration of scripture and the integrity of the Word of God, my point is that some think doctrine for the early church was a point by point piece of paper that everyone was agreed upon.
When the early church evanglised they went from town to town, house to house, told everyone the Good news, helped people experience Christian intiation (faith, repentance and baptisms) they didn't open a scroll and point to the word like we do today, they shared oral testimony and preaching (the exception being Paul in the Synagogues)
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Please pray for India
My personal mission is to BRING people into a right relationship with God, GROW them up to maturity and SEND them back into the world to minister.
On AFF, I have learned (I am of an "other faith", as the rules put it) that Apostolics don't agree on many (if any) doctrines. Not even salvation. How many steps? Which steps are "essential"?
Then there are the quibbles over details, and the quibbles over which details are important.
Sigh. Maybe I have learned enough.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
He discusses the oral history of Jesus that circulated in the early days of the church and how that came to be sources for the Gospels.
Well since no scholar alive today was there I would rather take Lukes word. He did not write his gospel when the other eyewitnesses he mentioned did. Reading what he wrote it seems clear he wrote after they did.
So my bottom line is this. We are to worship in Spirit and in Truth If anyone does not love the person of Jesus Christ they are obviously not saved.
In one sense you have to somehow get beyond doctrine into the person of Christ. And yet one cannot know him AS HE IS apart from his word. After all his doctrine and his word are one.
To believe on Jesus you must believe in what he said. If you dont believe in what he said you dont believe in him.
Paul stresses the importance of doctrine several times to Timothy in 1 Timothy Chapter 4. He seems to indicate that doctrine is very important for the minister to uphold to the flock. He tells Timothy to give attendance to DOCTRINE. He also tells Timothy to Take heed unto the DOCTRINE.
We live in a country that is fast leaving solid doctrine. Even in the Apostolic ranks the teacher of doctrine is fast being traded in for the progressive, motivational preacher, who says a whole lot of flowery words, but instills nothing lasting into the heart of the hearer.
So just how much do you value down to earth solid doctrine?
Lets not forget that doctrine means teaching. What did the Apostles teach is what we should teach
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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