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Originally Posted by helen_febus
Helen Febus: I see that you seem to ascribe to this undeclared war BTW we have not declared a war since world war 2.
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Subscribe? Well, as much as I would support a storm or blizzard. Wars happen. There are many who find justification for a "just war" in the Bible. I personally am undecided to be honest.
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Originally Posted by helen_febus
Doctrinally, christians are not to be involved in war. Amazing how things can be twisted in a certian direction. What bible gives us the authority to blow someones head off?
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Just "blow someones head off"? The United States has not gone about "blowing someone's head off" for the sake of the gory spectacle? No. The target of US force has been specific and authorized. The United States is defending itself and its interests legitimately, at least as far as International Law is concerned.
Others can and should investigate the Biblical position on "just wars" but it would be irresponsible of our leaders to pretend that we live in some utopia where self defense isn't needed.
The United Nations Security Council authorized the use of force against Sadaam Hussein's regime unless Saddam met specific conditions. Sadamm refused. The United States led a coalition of forces against Sadaam and removed his evil from Kuwait in 1991. The UN Security Council reaffirmed the use of force in 14 subsequent resolutions over the next 12 years, all of which Sadaam ignored. Sadaam played a waiting game and brutally put down all domestic attempts to unseat his government. He fired upon coalition aircraft that had been ordered by the United Nations to patrol the "no fly zones." They were flying these missions, not to attack Iraq, but rather to protect Iraqi citizens from their own insane government.
To have insisted that we do nothing, in fact supported Sadaam's game.
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Originally Posted by helen_febus
You insinuated that I had "worldly thoughts". I guess that I am human and have my frailties but I do not support blowing any one up.
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I did not "insinuate. I stated it outright. Maybe you are not aware of it, but the phrase you used has its genesis in the male dominance hierarchy of homosexual societies.
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Originally Posted by helen_febus
We have come to save lives not to destroy mens lives. If the devil wants to have his war then let him at it, but I am not going to say "do it in Jesus Name". It is not the job of the church to support such actions. Apostolic history will reveal that their constitutions declare consciencious objector status for the saints. (Not all have obeyed this rule.)
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Yes, this is a noble approach, the C.O. status. However you must not forget that those C.O.'s are protected by men and women who are risking their lives for the benefit of "the church." Your right to conscientious objecter status was paid for, not by "the devil" making war; but by decent Americans who made war and are making war against devils.
I personally will defend those people's right to defend you. I would hope that you would appreciate their efforts, even if you don't happen to appreciate mine.
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Originally Posted by helen_febus
You also tried to say that my information seemed to reflect a communist ideology. Boy, talk about trying to discredit someone you do not even know. Sounds like you might have gotten your toes steped on! You went "ouch, she must be a communist".
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Your statements about the "same corporations" controlling both the "media" and "making guns and bombs" was very typical of Leftist rhetoric. If you were politically conservative you would have at least seen that.
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Originally Posted by helen_febus
If anything I am one of the most conservative Republicans you will ever meet.
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No, you have left the pale of Republicanism and swallowed the angry bile of a populist who blames America for causing the events of 9/11. I find this particular ideology loathsome and must refrain from speaking my heart on this forum.
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Originally Posted by helen_febus
The President that I voted for 2 times has totally left his conservative base and has become a neo con.
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More evidence of silly sloganeering. Do you even know what Leo Strauss taught?
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Originally Posted by helen_febus
A true conservative believes in SMALL GOVERNMENT, and does not believe in nation building (which is bankrupting us right now)
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What is "bankrupting" the U.S. Treasury (really burdening is a better word) are the social spending programs that have automatic increases built into them. The Iraq war is expensive, but only a fraction of total government spending.
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Originally Posted by helen_febus
As a conservative I do not believe that the government should get 40% of my hard earned money.BTW that is socialism. I also do not believe in preemtive wars. We are not to attack first, you seem to know history. This is the first time that we have done so.
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We did not "attack" first, at least not yet we haven't.
The 2003 invasion of Iraq was a response to UN Security Council resolutions dating back to 1990. The invasion of Afghanistan was a direct response to the attacks of September 11, 2001.
Around the same time he was discussing these moves, the President introduced the idea of the "preemptive strike." That's what we haven't done yet. Some might say that the destruction of Iran's nuclear facilities would constitute a preemtive strike. However, Iran has been shooting at us since 1979 and even now has been firing advanced controlled missles at our forces in Iraq.
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Originally Posted by helen_febus
If the views that I have listed above seem to lean to communism, then complain to the founding fathers and framers of the constitution. It was their position. We are so accustomed to repeated violations of the constitution that no one is offended. I could go on but enough said about that.
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No, your position does not fit with that of the American founders, sorry. That's not a dig at you, just a statement of fact.
And what "repeated violations of the Constitution" are you talking about?
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Originally Posted by helen_febus
The media, fox especially,supports the war big time. If any one comes against it they are villified.( as you seem to be doing to me BTW.)
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How is "fox" (whose parent 'corporation' is News Corp) involved in the "making of guns and bombs?" Can you show me where Viacom or Disney is involved in "making guns and bombs?" How about Time Warner? The only "bombs" here are some of their movies.
What "anti-war" advocate has been "vilified" by anyone in the media? How have I "vilified" you?
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Originally Posted by helen_febus
Yes,the president gets it from the LEFT media, CNN national public radio ...
That is all politics, Left vs right but guess what they still get the same result. Now the Democrats are in and now they are singing the same tune as the Republicans! Now Hillery etal are saying well be there another 5 years and the nucular option is still on the table for IRAN!
As a christian I not only eschew blowing individuals up but I surely do not believe it is good manners to nuke a people either.
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In 2003 "they" said it would be 10 years before Iraq would be ready for an election. They had 2 major national elections after just 2 or 3 years.
It's messy and bloody. But we must do something to help our world toward a peaceful future. Many Apostolics don't want to do this. Instead their eschatology feeds upon the hatred and bloodshed that is the daily fare of far too many people. I don't know what your beliefs are, but nothing can be gained by having America sit on the sidelines while the world tears itself apart.
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Originally Posted by helen_febus
The country is weary of lost liberty. We can see that the system is not really free.
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What specific liberties have you lost since 2001? Really, how has the "war on terror" really affected you? Personally, it hasn't affected me one bit, except that thanks to Richard Reid I have to take off my shoes when I go through the airport, so I'm more careful about my sock selection- that's it.
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Originally Posted by helen_febus
In fact the church is in bondage to central planning and being milked for the rest of what we earn. This is not biblical BTW. As the U.S. constituition has been misused so has the word of God been twisted.
I guess it is time for a brake. I hope that we can continue discussing issues without the suttle undermining undertones. Lets stick to the issues.
God bless,
In Jesus Name
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Well, we do appear to reach agreement, after all the differences! And I agree that the US Constitution gets twisted around by the courts and others, but I don't see Bush & Co. as being responsible for that.
I'm sorry if I come across as a bit "in your face." I don't mean to. This particular means of communication leaves ham-fisted guys like me pounding on our keyboards and I have to try and be content with what comes out, or not to try at all. Thanks, for your patience.
And 1936 is a bit more recent than "centuries ago." It was a pivotal time when a lot the nascent Apostolic thoughts and practices were forming into concrete practices.
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