A question from a saint... for anyone that would like to give an answer...

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Thad

I don't believe this. I don't believe it was a King from England that caused preachers to preach againt facial hair. It was the wild hippies that came along and did years of irreparable damage to our culture

It wasn't the king himself. It was the fashion style changes that he represented.

Before the "hippies" it was the beatniks. Before the beatniks it was "all Communists have beards..." It's a bit older than you, Thad. Just go through old pictures of the OP movement and watch the styles change. Then notice the date when the preachers changed their style.

Fashion is of course a complex issue, and why people dress up the way they do is often mysterious. But pick up the popular magazines of the day and flip through the pages (or microfilm at your local library).

[Rhoni]

Pelathais,

You have done excellent posting on this thread. I have enjoyed reading your responses and most are right on.

Blessings, Rhoni

[helen_febus]

Originally Posted by kylady

I haven't been on this site for a very long time.. I was a former Methodist for 12 years.. and now I have been an Apostolic/Pentecostal for 34 years.. so I have been around alot of different things in my life.. and have had family and friends in different faiths/beliefs etc...
When I first was introduced to "Pentecost" at the age of 9.. it was NOTHING like what folks are calling "Pentecost" now..
I have always been taught that in the "end times" there would be a "great falling away"..
I don't understand why women have went from never cutting their hair to cutting it...
Television was TABOO.. now it seems to be the ISSUE at hand in which the UPCI is "concerned about".. but all the while that seems to be the "hot issue"... there are WAY MORE concerns for some of us saints.. than Television.. Pants on women.. when I heard it preached againest as a child.. now it is going on at alot of places... etc...
I guess if I had to ask a generalized question for anyone to answer it would sort of go like this..
"What is Pentecost to you?"
or maybe this question... "How have you personally changed as a Pentecostal over the years"....??
I don't mean this in a judgemental way.. I think there are alot of us that neither want to stray to the left... or the right.. we just honestly want to do what is right by the Lord and win souls for the Lord .. instead of being "confused by all the changes that are going on within Pentecost in general..
I haven't forgotten what it was like as a child to have parents searching for more truth.. and they were very glad when they heard about Acts 2:38..
It concerns some of us that are just tired of all the confusion that seems to be going on...
I have told some of my family and friends.. when rubber meets the road.. wouldn't we be better off leaving off things.. instead of adding more
things" to our lives.. and finding out some day .. that some "things" really did matter to the Lord .. when we come face to face with Him.. it will be too late to change our ways then..
One last comment/or question... Can someone PLEASE explain what is all the deal about "magic hair"???
I have "never" saw that until I was on this particular site... anyone want to answer that for me.. please feel free too..
I do care what happens around me.. simply because things that have already changed in Pentecost has affected my family.. and I want Bible answers if any of you would like to share your thoughts/and or scriptures concerning as to what being "Pentecostal" is to you .. God bless and guide all of us is my prayer!

My dear sister,
The truth that you received in the beginning of your walk is still truth. I have been living for God for quite some time now and have witnessed the slow deterioration of our movement that is quite evident in our midst.
If we put aside all of the arguments against the things you noted on your post and look objectively at the church as a whole we must admit that there are serious problems that we have now that were unthinkable say thirty years ago. The church has always had its share of problems throughout history. No doubt in this flesh dwelleth no good thing,so the battle always rages on. But if we honestly connect the dots and make a connection between the sanctification practices of days gone by and todays unbridled sanctification of carnality then some head scratching should begin.
I witnessed a UPC district,actually a whole state, go from the sanctification practices you mentioned (with revival) to where you wondered where the annointing went.
Spiritural liberty went out the door and spiritual bondage replaced it. Slowly the inportance of the Name and the Blood is being replaced with psychology, motivational speakers and purpose driven agendas. Our identy is being swallowed up by these movements (I am only mentioning a few). Apostolics dont even know who they are any more. They are having an identity crisis.
There is a strong connection with the curtailing of sanctification and the down hill slope of watered down doctrine. Large Apostolic denominations are allowing the sinners prayer to remit sins. This is happening as I write these words. This is a denial of the name of Jesus. Sins can only be remitted in his name. So connect the dots. The name is our identity. The movement is in confusion. But if we stick with the foundational truths that we were taught we wont forget who our daddy is.
Folks are fussing over t.v. Dont we understand that the system has controlled and formed our thinking? The corporations that control t.v and the media also make the guns and bombs. The media have apostolics believing that we should send our children to die in undeclared wars for oil. Our collective heads are not screwed on right. (War is big business and its going to get bigger with the bombing of Iran.) I hear the old cry,"We only want a t.v to watch the news" (something is wrong with that picture)
T.v is full of lies and filth it is intellectually damaging and has no place in our collective hearts. Again I urge, connect the dots.
God Bless You

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by helen_febus

My dear sister,
The truth that you received in the beginning of your walk is still truth. I have been living for God for quite some time now and have witnessed the slow deterioration of our movement that is quite evident in our midst.
If we put aside all of the arguments against the things you noted on your post and look objectively at the church as a whole we must admit that there are serious problems that we have now that were unthinkable say thirty years ago. The church has always had its share of problems throughout history. No doubt in this flesh dwelleth no good thing,so the battle always rages on. But if we honestly connect the dots and make a connection between the sanctification practices of days gone by and todays unbridled sanctification of carnality then some head scratching should begin.
I witnessed a UPC district,actually a whole state, go from the sanctification practices you mentioned (with revival) to where you wondered where the annointing went.
Spiritural liberty went out the door and spiritual bondage replaced it. Slowly the inportance of the Name and the Blood is being replaced with psychology, motivational speakers and purpose driven agendas. Our identy is being swallowed up by these movements (I am only mentioning a few). Apostolics dont even know who they are any more. They are having an identity crisis.
There is a strong connection with the curtailing of sanctification and the down hill slope of watered down doctrine. Large Apostolic denominations are allowing the sinners prayer to remit sins. This is happening as I write these words. This is a denial of the name of Jesus. Sins can only be remitted in his name. So connect the dots. The name is our identity. The movement is in confusion. But if we stick with the foundational truths that we were taught we wont forget who our daddy is.
Folks are fussing over t.v. Dont we understand that the system has controlled and formed our thinking? The corporations that control t.v and the media also make the guns and bombs. The media have apostolics believing that we should send our children to die in undeclared wars for oil. Our collective heads are not screwed on right. (War is big business and its going to get bigger with the bombing of Iran.) I hear the old cry,"We only want a t.v to watch the news" (something is wrong with that picture)
T.v is full of lies and filth it is intellectually damaging and has no place in our collective hearts. Again I urge, connect the dots.
God Bless You

*ahem, clears throat*
Welcome to AFF. LOL! God bless.

[Thad]

Originally Posted by pelathais

It wasn't the king himself. It was the fashion style changes that he represented.

Before the "hippies" it was the beatniks. Before the beatniks it was "all Communists have beards..." It's a bit older than you, Thad. Just go through old pictures of the OP movement and watch the styles change. Then notice the date when the preachers changed their style.

Fashion is of course a complex issue, and why people dress up the way they do is often mysterious. But pick up the popular magazines of the day and flip through the pages (or microfilm at your local library).

No reason to get Irritable pelathais. I am not one of those who ascribe to the doctrine that facial hair is a Sin. I just don't believe that history that goes back centuries ago has anything to do with today's reasoning

[Rico]

I refuse to let what was going on 40 years ago dictate to me how I am going to look. The 60s are long gone. Get over it already.

[The Mrs]

Originally Posted by Thad

No reason to get Irritable pelathais. I am not one of those who ascribe to the doctrine that facial hair is a Sin. I just don't believe that history that goes back centuries ago has anything to do with today's reasoning

LOL! Thad, if you're referring to the pics that Pelathais posted, they weren't from CENTURIES ago...they were from 70 years ago!!!





(psst... that would be decades.)

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Thad

No reason to get Irritable pelathais. I am not one of those who ascribe to the doctrine that facial hair is a Sin. I just don't believe that history that goes back centuries ago has anything to do with today's reasoning

I don't know how that came across as irritable, Thaddaeus. And 1936 is a bit more recent than "centuries ago." It was a pivotal time when a lot the nascent Apostolic thoughts and practices were forming into concrete practices.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by kylady

I haven't been on this site for a very long time.. I was a former Methodist for 12 years.. and now I have been an Apostolic/Pentecostal for 34 years.. so I have been around alot of different things in my life.. and have had family and friends in different faiths/beliefs etc...
When I first was introduced to "Pentecost" at the age of 9.. it was NOTHING like what folks are calling "Pentecost" now..

What are the main differences? Just in standards? Or in other ways?

I have always been taught that in the "end times" there would be a "great falling away"..

What does scripture have to say about that?

I don't understand why women have went from never cutting their hair to cutting it...

Several reasons could play into such a decision, such as:

* The woman never believed it to begin with, and when given the freedom to do so, went ahead and cut her hair.

* The woman violated her own convictions in an act of rebellion.

* The younger generation has not been taught the same or has not developed the same convictions as the older generation...for a number of reasons.

Television was TABOO.. now it seems to be the ISSUE at hand in which the UPCI is "concerned about".. but all the while that seems to be the "hot issue"... there are WAY MORE concerns for some of us saints.. than Television..

Despite all the recent hoopla, in my opinion, TV is a DEFUNCT issue. It doesn't even matter anymore. It will be a tool used by some, but the internet is far more hip and relevant as an outreach tool.

Pants on women.. when I heard it preached againest as a child.. now it is going on at alot of places... etc...

What is the question?

I guess if I had to ask a generalized question for anyone to answer it would sort of go like this..
"What is Pentecost to you?"
or maybe this question... "How have you personally changed as a Pentecostal over the years"....??

Personally? As a teenager and in my early twenties, I developed my own convictions, some of them the same as other Pentecostals, some of them different. In my mind, most of the major issues are now settled and decided.

I don't mean this in a judgemental way.. I think there are alot of us that neither want to stray to the left... or the right.. we just honestly want to do what is right by the Lord and win souls for the Lord .. instead of being "confused by all the changes that are going on within Pentecost in general..
I haven't forgotten what it was like as a child to have parents searching for more truth.. and they were very glad when they heard about Acts 2:38..
It concerns some of us that are just tired of all the confusion that seems to be going on...

There's nothing to be confused about. I believe what I believe according to what the Word says, and those beliefs don't change no matter where I am, or what kind of church I'm attending. I may change my practices or lifestyle according to what an assembly teaches, but never my own personal beliefs.

I have told some of my family and friends.. when rubber meets the road.. wouldn't we be better off leaving off things.. instead of adding more
things" to our lives.. and finding out some day .. that some "things" really did matter to the Lord .. when we come face to face with Him.. it will be too late to change our ways then..

We shouldn't live in fear. We should live with confidence in God. He isn't out to trick us, or leave some obscure rule unsaid so that we will unknowingly fail and miss out on an eternal reward. If you need to know what to believe and how to live, just look to scripture.

One last comment/or question... Can someone PLEASE explain what is all the deal about "magic hair"??? I have "never" saw that until I was on this particular site... anyone want to answer that for me.. please feel free too..

I had never heard it referred to in that way, either, until I read posts on the FCF....Basically, "magic hair" seems to be the idea that uncut hair protects a person or their family from evil or sickness, perhaps like a talisman and/or if a woman cuts her hair, she is removing that protection from herself, her family and her home.

[pelathais]

Hello Sister Helen. You make some of the same observations that Kylady did. But you also bring up somethings that confuse me toward the end of your post.

Originally Posted by helen_febus

...
But if we stick with the foundational truths that we were taught we wont forget who our daddy is.

That sounds like you've been unduly influenced by worldy thoughts.

Originally Posted by helen_febus

Folks are fussing over t.v. Dont we understand that the system has controlled and formed our thinking? The corporations that control t.v and the media also make the guns and bombs.

That would explain the overwhelming support from the media the president has seen for his policies in Iraq. But wait a minute... he hasn't seen any support from the media at all (hardly). Even his "friends" tend to hedge their support.

I find your assertion rather curious given the overwhelmingly negative coverage the current administration receives from the media. Major Television outlets have stumbled all over themselves to bring out obviously forged and faked "news" items to try and undermine support for the "guns and bombs." Your understanding of "corporate" America seems to be influenced more by communist/socialist ideology than the "foundational truths" of the Apostolic movement.

Originally Posted by helen_febus

The media have apostolics believing that we should send our children to die in undeclared wars for oil.

You are familiar with the Congressional War Powers Act of 1973? This is how Congress has Constitutionally delegated certain actions that formerly involved a full declaration of war to the president so that as Commander in Chief he can fulfill his presidential responsibilities to "protect and defend" the United States.

We are in a war with an enemy that has openly declared war on us. However they are not a formal nation-state with recognized boundaries and government. They are something that wasn't really envisioned by the framers of the Constitution in 1789. In fact, even by the time of the First Barbary War (1801-1805) the US president was sending Marines and sailors to fight on foreign soil without the benefit of a formal declaration of war ("the shores of Tripoli..."). In that case as well, the US was fighting a stateless enemy.

Originally Posted by helen_febus

Our collective heads are not screwed on right. (War is big business and its going to get bigger with the bombing of Iran.) I hear the old cry,"We only want a t.v to watch the news" (something is wrong with that picture)
T.v is full of lies and filth it is intellectually damaging and has no place in our collective hearts. Again I urge, connect the dots.
God Bless You

I think that you might benefit from the judicious use of good television programming. I recommend first the many basic civics government classroom programs on PBS and even watching our government at work on CSPAN. This would bring you up to date on Constitutional developments since 1801.

Next follow the History Channel and Discovery Network's Military Channel. The Military Channel is currently running several series of "war diaries" made by our soldiers in combat and on the front lines. Here you can see and hear from our people out there and hear directly from them as they discuss the things that they are fighting for. I've never heard any of them mention oil, by the way.

And for your benefit, neither PBS nor the Discovery Networks have a reputation as shills for the "military industrial complex."