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  #1  
Old 03-05-2015, 09:52 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist

Adam was NOT allowed to partake of both trees at the same time(sinners eating from the tree of life was forbidden, because it puts them back into the state of immortality)



Genesis 3:22-23 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Last edited by Sean; 03-05-2015 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 03-05-2015, 10:09 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the (singular)tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.



Every tree can be eaten, including the Tree of Life!!! The Tree of Life was in the garden.

Only 1(One) tree forbidden to eat...just 1!...Guess which one?

Last edited by Sean; 03-05-2015 at 10:18 AM.
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  #3  
Old 03-05-2015, 11:18 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist

"Put forth his hand" meant it was forbidden at the verse starting right here in chapter 3.....


Genesis 3:22-23 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:



And not in chapter 2 when ALL the trees were good to eat.,(with the exception of 1)



Remember, in chapter 2, things were quite different than in chapter 3......

Chapter 2....

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;

12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.

13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.

14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.

15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.




Chapter 3....

3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.

9 And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

See the difference in the 2 chapters?

In chapter 2 they were allowed to eat of EVERY tree in the Garden except 1(knowledge of good and evil)

In chapter 3(later) they were banned for the from the Tree of Life.(for eating from the 1st banned tree of chapter 2)

Thats why they were banned from the Tree of Life, and guess what?...They subsequently lost their immortality.

Last edited by Sean; 03-05-2015 at 11:33 AM.
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  #4  
Old 03-05-2015, 01:40 PM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist

nice!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
Thats why...
ok thanks. My question to you was why they did not die, as God said they would.
In the day you eat of it, you shall surely die.

Last edited by shazeep; 03-05-2015 at 01:44 PM.
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  #5  
Old 03-05-2015, 02:43 PM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist

well, that was for Sean, who reads literally...but since you answered, i will ask what you think the first "dying" means, in "dying, you will die."
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Old 03-05-2015, 10:15 PM
thephnxman thephnxman is offline
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist

Quote:
Originally Posted by shazeep View Post
well, that was for Sean, who reads literally...but since you answered, i will ask what you think the first "dying" means, in "dying, you will die."
You REALLY don't undertstand?

It means they began to die until they were dead
Please note that God did NOT say: [U][IF you eat, you will die];[U] rather, "...on
the day that you eat thereof...". God knew they would eat of the forbidden fruit.
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Old 03-06-2015, 09:05 AM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist

Quote:
Originally Posted by thephnxman View Post
You REALLY don't undertstand?
um, i thought i did, yes, but was asking for other povs in order to have a better understanding--and now i suspect that i know nothing!
Quote:
Originally Posted by thephnxman View Post
It means they began to die until they were dead
Please note that God did NOT say: [U][IF you eat, you will die];[U] rather, "...on
the day that you eat thereof...". God knew they would eat of the forbidden fruit.
I still agree with the last part, and would have agreed to the first, before i read Esaias' latest here! tyvm
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Old 03-05-2015, 03:15 PM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist

I think that the death process was both spiritual(immediate separation from God during the expulsion from the garden, which we see in Gen), coupled with the physical death process.(over time)

If Adam and Eve would have died physically that day, then we wouldnt be having this conversation.

Therefore, it is speaking of a spiritual death, regarding the day they sinned.(obviously)


Look at this....Ezekiel 18:20

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


A soul can actually die....our soul is part of us.....our soul desires to sin and our body acts on that sin....God desroys both soul and body into hell....

Matthew 10:28

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The body and soul are connected together on earth for all the living.

When we sin, the soul is separated from fellowship with God in spiritual death and the body eventually follows suit.

Last edited by Sean; 03-05-2015 at 03:23 PM.
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  #9  
Old 03-05-2015, 04:01 PM
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Lafon Lafon is offline
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
I think that the death process was both spiritual(immediate separation from God during the expulsion from the garden, which we see in Gen), coupled with the physical death process.(over time)

If Adam and Eve would have died physically that day, then we wouldnt be having this conversation.

Therefore, it is speaking of a spiritual death, regarding the day they sinned.(obviously)


Look at this....Ezekiel 18:20

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


A soul can actually die....our soul is part of us.....our soul desires to sin and our body acts on that sin....God desroys both soul and body into hell....

Matthew 10:28

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The body and soul are connected together on earth for all the living.

When we sin, the soul is separated from fellowship with God in spiritual death and the body eventually follows suit.

Sean, your statements are sheer nonsense, to state it politely!

The word "Spiritual," IMHO, can be defined as having a "mind-set" towards God, and

Death is best defined as an event from which there is NO possible hope for recovery, EXCEPT by an act of God who holds ALL power.

When anyone "assumes" that Adam and Eve experienced "spiritual death" when the sentence of death was imposed upon their physical BODIES (NOT their SOULS - read Genesis 3:19 very carefully), then they are imposing a penalty for their act of willful disobedience against God's commandment that is even more severe than God's, and in that process, are, in essence, sentencing them to an eternal hell!

There is absolutely NOTHING which states, or even insinuates in any manner whatsoever, that God imposed a penalty of "spiritual death" upon either Adam or Eve! In fact, seeing that there exists NOTHING within the entire Bible that tells us WHO instructed Cain and Abel to offer a sacrifice to God upon an altar as an atonement for their sins, then we simply MUST conclude that they were so instructed by their parents! And THAT is something which neither ADAM or EVE could have been capable of doing if they experienced a "spiritual death"!

Oh! How I wish that we as Spirit filled Apostolic Pentecostals would ONLY pause and consider the implications of the things which we publicly publish as "if" it were truth, when just a little time expended in researching a matter would make all the difference, such as I've noted herein regarding the widely accepted "allegation" that Adam and Eve experienced a "spiritual death"!
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Old 03-05-2015, 04:13 PM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist

Lafon, "spiritual death" is another word for "spiritual separation" from God.

I guess you consider the drug addict, athiest or prostitute "spiritually alive?"

Ephesians 2

2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;(how were these people dead?...Spiritually or physically?)
(Are the children of Adam and Eve part of this "dead" group also, including Adam and Eve themselves?)
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.(I say spiritually dead, not physically dead....how say you?)




Notice the word "quickened" above.....


Full Definition of QUICKEN

transitive verb
1
a : to make alive : revive
b : to cause to be enlivened

Last edited by Sean; 03-05-2015 at 04:39 PM.
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