Are Beards The Mark Of The Beast?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I have not said someone who believes in 3 co equal co eternal persons each one distinct from the other will arrive in the eternal kingdom.

And pre trib is not a damnable heresy?

2 Thess 2:1-3

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

So can someone who teaches pre trib, Jesus can come before the man of sin is revealed....someone Paul here is calling A DECEIVER OF GODS PEOPLE really expect to have a home in Heaven?

How about the preterist who teaches Jesus came for the resurrection 2000 years ago?

Is this a damnable heresy?

2 Tim. 2:4

16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 17And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 18Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Is this not a damnable heresy?

Who are we to give modern Apostolics a free pass into Heaven while they themselves are walking in heresy?



Are the standards Biblical? If so call them what the Bible calls them. COMMANDMENTS. Then you will have something to stand on. I dont see the word "standards" in the Bible.



Charismatics will say everything THEY DO is about walking in Spirit and Truth. Are all of them doing it? Are all Apostolics doing it? Are you willing to read my writings on the resurrection of the dead?

Mike, you don't get out much do you?

You are in some sort of Kentuckian cloister? Sitting on Paltalk kicking people out of your room the minute they disagree with you? While you get all happy that people are Post trib you don't have the foggiest idea that not all post tribs are the same? Do you understand that? Hello reality to religious fantasy person! Ground control to Major Tom, take your protein pills, and put your helmet on because obviously you are the only one here who has salvation. We all need to be under your ministry and everything in your head should be neatly stowed in ours. Because bro, not all post tribs are the same. You don't believe like Brother Reckart, you don't believe like Brother Irvin Baxter Jr, there are points which you can agree. Which are Jesus coming after the tribulation. Period. All the other nice details are different. Do you know how many beliefs there are for the two witnesses? The man child, the woman in the wilderness, the saints under the altar, Mystery Babylon has more different interpretations then Carter has little liver pills. The jokers who you watch their streaming religious puppet show on Sunday, do they believe like you? NO, they do not. I have been in Prophecy conferences where we were all post tribs and there were men who may of held to Jesus coming after the tribulation, but that was IT. The differences piled up to the ceiling.

Guess what Mike, back away from the key board and get a church going. Because you need to do something if everything you believe is the only thing to save us all. News flash, the Apostolic movement eschatology is all over the place. predominantly Dispensationalist, and I say that loosely. So before you shovel MeeMaw and PeePaw off into the abyss, you better check yo self before you wreck yo self.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

You could say that of a lot of things. Even things which we were discussing earlier. There's no prohibition for creating organizations in the Bible, yet we agree that one could make an organization their idol.

There's no prohibition for eating or many other things. Yet an idol isn't about the prohibition of something. An idol is anything which comes between a person and God.

I can agree with that to some degree. However, I believe there are biblical boundaries. I'll address these as I respond.

Beards don't have to be prohibited to be an idol. If a man uses that as a basis to not attend church, it has become an idol.

I don't doubt they do. And if they do have a deep love and passion for the Bible, they would (or should) understand then that the Pastor has been put in this role by God and has the responsibility to watch for their souls and give account of them to God.

Again, I agree to an extent. The man of God is appointed by God to serve the church by teaching, spiritually feeding, and leading the flock. And the man of God's responsibility is to stay within the boundaries of Scripture. When a man of God fails to teach the full counsel of Scripture, or goes beyond the Scriptures, he's failing in his calling. This notion of infallible authority is what gave rise to the early notions that a bishop has authority equal to Scripture to define church custom, practices, and even the interpretation of the Scripture. This is the very same error that led to adopting the doctrine of the Trinity, the orthodoxy of the triune baptismal formula, the notion of celibacy for priests, and the numerous doctrines involving how to perform penance. The bishops had the "authority" to redefine and establish doctrine in accordance to their own convictions. And since the bishop was the "man of God", he had infallible authority.

I go back to the idea of a pastor commanding that the flock wear tin foil hats. According to your logic, the congregation would indeed be bound to wear tin foil hats! And worse yet, if someone argued that such a requirement wasn't in Scripture and chose not to attend such a church, they'd be in "rebellion" from God ordained authority, and their desire not to wear a tin foil hat would become an idol.

Any REAL man of God will teach for doctrine the full counsel of Scripture while never going beyond the Scriptures into the realm of teaching for doctrine the commandments of men.

The Bible is our anchor. The more we water it down or add to it... the weaker and more clouded the message becomes.

This notion of pastoral infallibility is dangerous. In one Apostolic church wearing a wedding ring will send one to Hell...but in another... it's acceptable because it is "functional". In one Apostolic church short sleeves will send one to Hell... but in another... they are acceptable. To one Apostolic church going to any sporting event will send one to Hell...but in another sporting events are acceptable as long as they are not during church services. In one Apostolic church not wearing hosiery under one's skirt or dress will send one to Hell... but in another... it is acceptable not to wear hosiery under one's skirt or dress. I could go on and on and on. This teaching has done more to cause division, divisiveness, envy, strife, and spiritual pride than almost any other. Because I know pastors who will tell you that other pastors who do not embrace their standards are "backslidden". And pastors who do not hold those standards will tell you that the more strict pastors are legalists.

Is God the author of confusion??? No. Therefore, we know that such a teaching that would allow for such confusion isn't of God.

You'll notice that in my response above I emboldened a phrase, "teach for doctrine". You see, there's a difference between a pastor saying, "It is my opinion that beards present a more clean and godly appearance." Or, "I've never been a big fan of beards." And from a professional stand point, a pastor has the authority to set a platform policy on facial hair. However, such a standard would raise some real significant questions if evaluated. But the point I'm making is that if a pastor voices his opinion as his opinion, and encourages the church to consider the merits of his opinion, that's one thing. But to slam one's fist on the pulpit and tell the church that anyone wearing a beard is going to Hell is not only spiritually immature... it is going well beyond the Bible, and enshrining his opinion as being equal to the Word of God. Now a man made opinion is regarded as being as authoritative as Scripture, making the pastor essentially an authority equal to God Himself. And that too is idolatry.

We can establish doctrine and teach where the Bible speaks on a topic. However, we can only share opinions and convictions based on principles or experience where the Bible is silent. And none of these opinions or convictions are ever on the same level as "doctrine" in the biblical sense. I know a pastor who has voiced that it is his conviction that being clean shaven better presents the image of a clean and godly church. And I'd say that perhaps the vast majority of men in his congregation are clean shaven. There might be one or two who attend that wear beards. And they are allowed to serve in every capacity. Again, the vast majority of men in his church are clean shaven. And he has never preached that his opinion is equal to Scripture or threatened men that they'd go to Hell if they wore a beard. He is greatly respected because he is balanced in his teaching of Scripture. He'll flat out tell you if the Bible doesn't mention a topic or doesn't address an issue. And then, he'll share his experience with the issue and his convictions about it. And he might even say, "Those are my convictions. Your convictions may differ, but that is how I feel about it." You see, he owns his convictions. And he shares them. He doesn't demand compliance with them with an iron fist and the threat of one going to Hell if they don't comply. And, he's so respected and loved because of his sound teaching, most come into compliance out of love and respect. There is no threat of Hell and he isn't teaching his own convictions or opinions as doctrine.

And by owning his opinions as opinions, he leaves the door wide open for full fellowship with pastors who have differing convictions. There is a unity of love and Spirit in the midst of pastoral diversity.

If a pastor raises his opinions or convictions to being equal to Scripture... run. The man is compromised and has a papist spirit.

What did Jesus mean when He spoke of the Law and the Prophets?

What we call the Tanakh.

Sorry, I disagree with you here. The issue is deception and compromise. The devil will try to deceive people into believe that if they just let up here or let this or that go, "tens of thousands" will come. When in reality not only is that not going to happen, but more people will be lost.

When the planks of truth are plastered together with the weak and beggarly traditions and doctrines of men, the whole house will fall.

Had the church been built on nothing but the Word of God from the beginning, it wouldn't fall.

You're right, they're not. Which makes it even more incredible that men would gladly follow the former and resist the latter.

First, FM22-5 doesn't tell us that a man will burn in Hell over a beard. It's only a requirement for employment in the military. Those who choose that employment voluntarily agree to be compliant. Second, the Bible doesn't have the slightest hint that a beard is sin. It's merely a human opinion being taught for doctrine. It's no different than a standard requiring a tin foil hat be worn at all times. The word for such is, "unbiblical".

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

Sorry, but no.

You do realize that you're professing that you believe that a sound church can be built on both truth and the doctrines, traditions, and opinions of man, right???

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

Quick question. Does Christ fill Trinitarians with His Spirit the Holy Ghost just so they can go to hell?

While the baptism of the Holy Spirit brings regeneration upon repentance, failure to be water baptized in the name of Jesus is a failure to be biblically identified with Him in His burial and resurrection. If baptized in the name of titles, then one is guilty of the same error as those who preach against beards, abiding by a man made doctrine. If one embraces the Trinity, again, they are embracing a man made doctrine. Error is always based on human opinion being elevated to equality to, or superiority over, God's Word.

[Aquila]

If a pastor has infallible authority to mandate doctrine and practices, then when the Bishops of the early church chose to embrace Triune baptism, indulgences, icons, veneration of saints, etc.... are we not out of compliance with God given authority?

Or is a man of God's authority limited to the boundaries set by what is contained in the Word of God???

[Aquila]

I have come to believe that NDavid is right in that should Apostolic churches drop all the unbiblical traditions of man, people would become confused, compromise, fall away, and be lost.

Such is the cost of departing from the Word of God.

Any church not founded upon the Word and the Word alone will fold when the planks of human tradition, doctrine, and opinions are removed.

The gate is more straight, and the way more narrow, than most realize.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I have come to believe that NDavid is right in that should Apostolic churches drop all the unbiblical traditions of man, people would become confused, compromise, fall away, and be lost.

Such is the cost of departing from the Word of God.

Any church not founded upon the Word and the Word alone will fold when the planks of human tradition, doctrine, and opinions are removed.

The gate is more straight, and the way more narrow, than most realize.

NDavid has been drinking the phariseeical koolaid.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

NDavid has been drinking the phariseeical koolaid.

A very wise man once said:"Whenever you remove any fence, always pause long enough to ask why it was put there in the first place."

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

A very wise man once said:"Whenever you remove any fence, always pause long enough to ask why it was put there in the first place."

When it comes to the "Beard Fence" it was placed as a bullwark against "The Hippies and de Geyz"

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

When it comes to the "Beard Fence" it was placed as a bullwark against "The Hippies and de Geyz"

Beards and facial hair is 1% of what any of that is about. Compromise leads to more compromise just look at America! Whatever is happening outside will always try to make in roads to the church. Then the next thing you know RuPaul is your Bishop and holds a fellowship card. Carry On...