What Constitutes Discipleship? - Page 6

Rhoni · #1 12-27-2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think that it’s important to note that when Jesus called the disciples he led and taught them for three and a half years…yet even up until the point of his death they still didn’t understand all the things he was teaching them. Also they had yet to receive the Holy Ghost at Pentecost. This was all pre-New Testament salvation discipling. It wasn’t until after Christ rose from the dead and opened their eyes that they received a deep understanding of the truth. Then he admonished them to go to Pentecost until they received power from on high. The point is that Christ discipled the disciples for 3 and a half years before they experienced Pentecost.

Also it is important to note that most of Christ’s discipling of the disciples took place in informal conversations in homes, over dinner tables, on the road, in the markets, in the fields, on the mount side, in the garden, etc. Discipleship is far more than just a religious class held during service times. That’s part of our problem. We offer classes and programs in our efforts to disciple…but we’re not teaching someone who to be an HVAC technician…we’re teaching everyday spiritual disciplines that require everyday interaction to learn rather it be prior to salvation or after salvation:

Acts 2:42-47
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in
breaking of bread, and in prayers.
And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

We see that in the beginning they not only met in the temple…but they broke bread from house to house. They shared their entire lives with one another. As you can see even the provision of material goods and needs was an essential element in their fellowship. Christian discipleship didn’t take place in the Temple…it took place in the context of Christian fellowship. The true purpose of fellowship is discipling, not entertainment.

What is there to be cautious about? I’d like to take this opportunity to make a statement I love; there’s no such thing as a cautious Christian.

I think that’s faulty theology. The “church” isn’t a “place”. It’s a people. The church can meet in a big building, a living room, a park, a Starbuck’s, a book store, a courthouse square, a back yard, down by the riverside, in a barn, in the brush arbors, old textile mills, under bridges…you name it and Christians who really know Jesus can “church” there.

The myth prevails…bring them to an impressive building (that we’ve grown to believe is a necessity) and sit them in classes and call it discipleship.

Ditch the focus on luxurious buildings, padded pews, tall steeples, stained glass windows, polished classrooms, and just let people into your life. Open your homes and your lives up and mentor others in what it means to live a Christian life. Hold Bible studies in the park, in the malls, or at the local coffee shop. Let new believers see first hand what it means to be a Christian OUTSIDE of the sanctuary. Let them see you talk to others about Christ.

You know…our founders gathered wherever they could find a roof and just taught Bible without programs or gimmicks. We’ve become so “institutionalized”.

Aquila,

Awesome post!

Blessings, Rhoni

Sister Alvear · #2 12-27-2007, 09:38 AM

I love the church (not the building) It was the thoughts of the early christians that we are a family. UNfortuantly the family has become so divided that we little resembled the first church...However not to be discouraged they too faced their problems...I am of Paul..o notice this passage 1 Cor 1:10-13

10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ."

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?
NIV

So in spite of being the early church they too suffered and more holy attitudes was among them...I am more spiritual because I know so and so..or so and so baptized me...

However there has and will always be a people that are NOT affected by titles, politics, impressive material things and it is this people I want to be around and be a part of...

A sense of real community...a sense of caring one for another...

Sister Alvear · #3 12-27-2007, 09:56 AM

I think most people miss the sense of caring one for another, the sense of being a family... the cost is high....however I notice that there are those who want to be discipled and want to learn. We have a precious and I mean precious group that happen to live right around us...are loyal and always looking out for each other...NOW it was NOT always like that...we have had many lessons on Christian Character...avoiding those that cause
dissensions...those that rebel against authority...
People become loyal followers after much time working together, trust must be built...People must see the person that is mentoring them has a good testimony from within and without..

I would not want to work under someone that is not disciplined and responsible. How can we teach what we do not live?

(MORE later)

Barb · #4 12-27-2007, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I think most people miss the sense of caring one for another, the sense of being a family... the cost is high....however I notice that there are those who want to be discipled and want to learn. We have a precious and I mean precious group that happen to live right around us...are loyal and always looking out for each other...NOW it was NOT always like that...we have had many lessons on Christian Character...avoiding those that cause
dissensions...those that rebel against authority...
People become loyal followers after much time working together, trust must be built...People must see the person that is mentoring them has a good testimony from within and without..

I would not want to work under someone that is not disciplined and responsible. How can we teach what we do not live?

(MORE later)

Exactly!!

Sister Alvear · #5 12-27-2007, 09:58 AM

Sometimes we have too many cheifs and not enough indians!

Sister Alvear · #6 12-27-2007, 10:05 AM

We had a little problem a while back and I said nothing about it to our saints....it was the SAINTS that came to us and said they would have no part with a couple that was causing us problems...
Saints are not dumb...They know a real godly leader and even a real godly leaders is human and they know that too! AND they know who goes around trouble makers...

In every group there will be the sincere and the false that is just a part of life...I hope my pastor can say I have always been true and loyal to him and never have I slipped off to those that have caused him trouble over the years...
Was my pastor right 100 % of the time...no...but he is my pastor and no person is right all the time BUT he knows where my loyalty lies.

and so it should be...thus it was with the first church..did they have those that left...those that went out from among them? Of course they did.

Rhoni · #7 12-27-2007, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

We had a little problem a while back and I said nothing about it to our saints....it was the SAINTS that came to us and said they would have no part with a couple that was causing us problems...
Saints are not dumb...They know a real godly leader and even a real godly leaders is human and they know that too! AND they know who goes around trouble makers...

In every group there will be the sincere and the false that is just a part of life...I hope my pastor can say I have always been true and loyal to him and never have I slipped off to those that have caused him trouble over the years...
Was my pastor right 100 % of the time...no...but he is my pastor and no person is right all the time BUT he knows where my loyalty lies.

and so it should be...thus it was with the first church..did they have those that left...those that went out from among them? Of course they did.

Sis. Alvear, Barb, & Felicity,

Although the comments you are making are good ones, they aren't exactly the topic of disciplining people to Christ. They aren't about leaders and followers within a church or organization...they are about soul-winning and those who by their spirit are looked to for spiritual guidance for the hungry and searching.

Lord knows we all have been a witness to trouble-makers in churches. I know I have and I read every book I could to deal with it and I have to go back to scripture about disassociating those who cause contention in the church for the sake of the body and the contentious one's ultimate salvation.

Blessings, Rhoni

Felicity · #8 12-27-2007, 10:27 AM

Rhonda .......

Soul winning and discipling are not synonymous.

And I have been talking about discipling as have the others here that you mentioned. In fact, I wrote a post about some of the ways we go about discipling people.

I feel that for the most part ... and some of your comments have been good btw .... you've been talking more about evangelism, soulwinning and some perceived weaknesses of the church in regard to relationship and discipling.

Barb · #9 12-27-2007, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Sis. Alvear, Barb, & Felicity,

Although the comments you are making are good ones, they aren't exactly the topic of disciplining people to Christ. They aren't about leaders and followers within a church or organization...they are about soul-winning and those who by their spirit are looked to for spiritual guidance for the hungry and searching.

Lord knows we all have been a witness to trouble-makers in churches. I know I have and I read every book I could to deal with it and I have to go back to scripture about disassociating those who cause contention in the church for the sake of the body and the contentious one's ultimate salvation.

Blessings, Rhoni

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

Rhonda .......

Soul winning and discipling are not synonymous.

And I have been talking about discipling as have the others here that you mentioned. I feel that for the most part ... and some of your comments have been good btw .... you've been talking more about evangelization and soulwinning.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what you mean, Rhonda, by discipling.

As I stated, I thought a disciple was already a follower of Christ.

Rhoni · #10 12-27-2007, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity

Rhonda .......

Soul winning and discipling are not synonymous.

Quote:

By the definition I was going for...they are synonymous. My ideas are that you have to grow a person up in Christ until they are able to walk and eat for themselves.

And I have been talking about discipling as have the others here that you mentioned. In fact, I wrote a post about some of the ways we go about discipling people.

I feel that for the most part ... and some of your comments have been good btw .... you've been talking more about evangelism, soulwinning and some perceived weaknesses of the church in regard to relationship and discipling.

Quote:

Actually, I do not think the majority of churches have weakness in this area. I was trying to generate discussion on soul-winning and disciplining people according to the above stated definition. The reasons why we have so many conflicting statements is because we have not agreed on the definition.

Sis. Alvear,

I think missionaries are more acquainted with the things I am talking about because your soul-winning and disciplining , for the most part, happen outside the four walls of a church building or organizational structure.

Most true disciplining and soul-winning come from new converts who are hungry themselves who study, ask questions, and talk about Jesus to everyone they come in contact with.

Blessings, Rhoni