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07-28-2008, 08:55 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,848
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Re: A Voice From the Past - E. L. Holley
Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldpaths
Thank you for enlightening me - first time I heard of it and I believe you.
My church would be considered ultra-con by some, but since I was baptized in 10/88 and got the Holy Ghost in 05/89, I have not heard in my church of not being able to play a board game that uses dice.
My own personal opinion is that Proverbs mentions the lot causing contentions to cease. Now if dice was a weakness to one of my brothers who used to be addicted to playing craps and/or gambling, then I should not lay a stumblingblock before him - the bible is quite clear on that one.
I believe it is safer to obey those that have the rule over you than to knowingly disobey.
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I am sure now that only the most conservative of the conservative churches actually ban dice. My pastor was from an ultra conservative background and had actually mellowed somewhat by the time I can remember. No Christmas trees or comic books though!
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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07-28-2008, 09:48 PM
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crakjak
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: dallas area
Posts: 7,605
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Re: A Voice From the Past - E. L. Holley
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
Unless you crossed him and were unafilliating your church from the UPC!
This article was more of good old time OP logic that you must ban everything because everything leads to something bad.
You can't play Monopoly with dice because the next thing you know you will be in Vegas playing Craps with a blonde hoochie mama at your elbow rooting you on!
I think the article speaks for itself. The ultra cons will revel in it's clarion call for cookie cutter corporate legalism layed down by a preacher modeled after the Old Testament Judges and Prophets rather than Jesus Christ's ministry on earth.
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Those guys were pretty arrogant, because they had big churches, and that they were not accountable to anyone. I was right there with them, but I have grown older and wiser.
BTW: didn't say I agree with everything he said, but I still stand by what I said.
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07-28-2008, 09:50 PM
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crakjak
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: dallas area
Posts: 7,605
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Re: A Voice From the Past - E. L. Holley
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
I am sure now that only the most conservative of the conservative churches actually ban dice. My pastor was from an ultra conservative background and had actually mellowed somewhat by the time I can remember. No Christmas trees or comic books though!
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Are you related to me? lol
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07-28-2008, 09:58 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: East Texas
Posts: 2,065
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Re: A Voice From the Past - E. L. Holley
Elder E. L. Holley was a very fine man and worthy on honor.
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07-28-2008, 10:02 PM
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Forever Loved Admin
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 26,537
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Re: A Voice From the Past - E. L. Holley
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whole Hearted
Elder E. L. Holley was a very fine man and worthy on honor.
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You are right about that WH.
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
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07-29-2008, 08:23 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 495
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Re: A Voice From the Past - E. L. Holley
Quote:
Originally Posted by crakjak
Those guys were pretty arrogant, because they had big churches, and that they were not accountable to anyone. I was right there with them, but I have grown older and wiser.
BTW: didn't say I agree with everything he said, but I still stand by what I said.
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What happened to Brother Taklamarian (not sure if that's the right spelling) shows that no matter how much you have done for God or how big you become in your own eyes, or in the eyes of others, or how much followers you have; you are still not immune to deception and/or taking a fall.
The example of the fall of Pastor Ted (leader of the biggest evangelical org in the US and advised the president many times) shows that it does not matter how big your church is, and how many followers you have, and what position you hold.
Just because one has a big church and/or many followers and some lofty position, does NOT mean that they are above others.
How many big churches preach - "Just believe...."?
__________________
Jer 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls...
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07-29-2008, 08:25 PM
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Unvaxxed Pureblood too
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Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 41,044
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Re: A Voice From the Past - E. L. Holley
Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldpaths
What happened to Brother Taklamarian
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He's eating oatmeal somewhere. He really likes the stuff. 
__________________
"all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
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07-29-2008, 09:08 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,848
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Re: A Voice From the Past - E. L. Holley
Quote:
Originally Posted by crakjak
Those guys were pretty arrogant, because they had big churches, and that they were not accountable to anyone. I was right there with them, but I have grown older and wiser.
BTW: didn't say I agree with everything he said, but I still stand by what I said.
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I don't think he conducted himself very well at the meetings to disaffiliate two of the largest UPC churches in Texas in the late 70's. That is where I lost my respect for him. He had a very bad attitude unlike the recent situation where a TX DS conducted the same type meeting at a Dallas / Ft. Worth area church.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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07-29-2008, 09:24 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 495
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Re: A Voice From the Past - E. L. Holley
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
I don't think he conducted himself very well at the meetings to disaffiliate two of the largest UPC churches in Texas in the late 70's. That is where I lost my respect for him. He had a very bad attitude unlike the recent situation where a TX DS conducted the same type meeting at a Dallas / Ft. Worth area church.
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I wonder if there were things happening behind the scenes that those who were just observing were not aware of? Makes me think of the scripture...
Pro 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
Perhaps the idea is judging a matter without knowing all of the details?
That's why I like what Jesus taught in Matt 18 about offenses...
- Go to him first alone
- If he will not hear thee, take one or two others and then go to him so that in the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses every word may be established
- If he still won't hear thee, bring it before the whole church
- If he won't hear the church, ...
Church discipline according to Jesus - What wisdom!
__________________
Jer 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls...
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07-29-2008, 09:26 PM
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Jesus' Name Pentecostal
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
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Re: A Voice From the Past - E. L. Holley
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berkeley
do you agree with the article?
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no
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