Do you still believe the doctrine after leaving? - Page 6

Baron1710 · #51 06-17-2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Usually the average person in church doesn't care about the difference and sees no big deal because you believe JEsus is God. If you where a JW..... it could get ugly. Usually it's seminary students or associate pastors etc... that will give people fits cast them down. It's not just OP preachers etc... Protecting the flock you know. LOL!

While what you say is true about most lay people, last year I preached the pastor appreciation service for a Foursquare pastor, I have taught Sunday School for an Assembly of God pastor, and I have taught the college age classes for a Christian Evangelistic Assembly pastor. Never had an issue and was ALWAYS upfront about where I was coming from never deceived anyone.

Baron1710 · #52 06-17-2009, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY

I believe those of you who have dropped the standards are more concerned about we who have not dropped the standards than we who have not dropped the standards are concerned about you who have. I feel it's between you and God and that should concern you.

I also feel that the reason you are so concerned is because yoiu feel a little guilt deep down deep in your heart.

I also notice many of you who have dropped the standards have a great dislike for UPC or anyone who has not dropped the standards.

I believe (insert your favorite blue collar comedy joke here)...

I also believe you are wrong. That may be true of some, however, I feel no guilt at all for the UPCI dress standards that I rejected.

I also have many very close friends on staff at UPCI churches around the country. None of them have "dropped the standards" yet it is rare that a week goes by that I don't get a call from one of them. I don't dislike the UPCI or the people in it.

Sister Alvear · #53 06-17-2009, 07:53 AM

never belonged to UPC but they have a good missions program...

*AQuietPlace* · #54 06-17-2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY

I believe those of you who have dropped the standards are more concerned about we who have not dropped the standards than we who have not dropped the standards are concerned about you who have. I feel it's between you and God and that should concern you.

I also feel that the reason you are so concerned is because yoiu feel a little guilt deep down deep in your heart.

I also notice many of you who have dropped the standards have a great dislike for UPC or anyone who has not dropped the standards.

You are very, very wrong.

Many people who have not dropped the standards, believe that those who have are not even saved.

(from my own personal experience, I would have to use the word 'most' in that sentence instead of 'many'.)

I don't know anyone who cares that people haven't dropped standards, they just get tired of being judged themselves.

Michlow · #55 06-17-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esther

When you left the standards did you also leave the doctrine of Acts 2:38?

Do you still believe in oneness?

Do you still baptize in Jesus name?

Why do I ask?

Because a good friend of mine believes and has been taught and often seems the case that once the door is open to leave the standards the next is the doctrine.

Where do you stand?

I was going to say no, but then I thought maybe I should say yes. The confusion isn't in your question, it's in what I thought you were asking! LOL

Many people stop attending an apostolic church because they disagree with standards, not having anywhere else to go, they attend a church that teaches different doctrine. Some still believe in the 3 steps themselves and will forever, others eventually cross over.

In my case, I continued to attend an apostolic church long after I stopped believing in standards, because I still agreed with the doctrine. Those changed over the years, I eventually stopped attending, when I realized I disagreed with more than I agreed with.

But I can't deny that in many cases there is a correlation. But I don't think it's because of a slippery slope, or deception or anything like that.

In my case, I was taught that somethings were true (standards and doctrine), and for a time I believed they were true. When I realized that parts of it weren't true, it did cause me to go back and re-examine everything else I had been taught as well.

I think the part that frustrates me is that some mockingly say "first standards then doctrine...just you watch!", which makes it sound like it was completely a casual and nonchalant transition.

Like I woke up one day and said "Hmm, I don't think God cares if I wear pants. Oh, I guess that means people can be baptized however they want"

ForeverBlessed · #56 06-17-2009, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michlow

I was going to say no, but then I thought maybe I should say yes. The confusion isn't in your question, it's in what I thought you were asking! LOL

Many people stop attending an apostolic church because they disagree with standards, not having anywhere else to go, they attend a church that teaches different doctrine. Some still believe in the 3 steps themselves and will forever, others eventually cross over.

In my case, I continued to attend an apostolic church long after I stopped believing in standards, because I still agreed with the doctrine. Those changed over the years, I eventually stopped attending, when I realized I disagreed with more than I agreed with.

But I can't deny that in many cases there is a correlation. But I don't think it's because of a slippery slope, or deception or anything like that.

In my case, I was taught that somethings were true (standards and doctrine), and for a time I believed they were true. When I realized that parts of it weren't true, it did cause me to go back and re-examine everything else I had been taught as well.

I think the part that frustrates me is that some mockingly say "first standards then doctrine...just you watch!", which makes it sound like it was completely a casual and nonchalant transition.

Like I woke up one day and said "Hmm, I don't think God cares if I wear pants. Oh, I guess that means people can be baptized however they want"

I understand what you are saying. You step outside the little world you live in, and you do examine everything....and make sure in your heart it all lines up with the Word.

While I do attend a church that baptizes in Jesus name and is Spirit filled... they accept others without the H.G baptism as brother/sisters. I personally believe that people better have the Spirit filling, tough road ahead living without it...

What i think happens is outside the upc box, you realize there many people serving the Lord who have never heard of the upc... even people baptized in the name and even bigger number who speak with tongues and operate in the gifts. We never see past our own, so we just have no clue.

Get to know people who have committed lives, living for God... and often better than you saw growing up... Many start to question because you see good Godly people... I just realize now that I am in their lives to sow more... and also learn from them.

I like to look at it as we are all on a journey... I can learn and be taught by anyone on this journey... even if they don't have what I have because I need more of what they have in some instances. Hopefully we learn from each other.

I've gotten to where I just love to say "have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?" cause there sure is a whole lot of believers out there... many just as Cornelius.. who the bible says was a devout man who feared God.

ManOfWord · #57 06-17-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY

I believe those of you who have dropped the standards are more concerned about we who have not dropped the standards than we who have not dropped the standards are concerned about you who have. I feel it's between you and God and that should concern you.

I also feel that the reason you are so concerned is because yoiu feel a little guilt deep down deep in your heart.

I also notice many of you who have dropped the standards have a great dislike for UPC or anyone who has not dropped the standards.

The only guilt I feel is from berating people over standards and telling them it was salvational. For that, I have great remorse.

I don't have a great dislike for the UPCI or anyone who has not dropped standards. I have great respect for anyone who holds to their convictions. However, when someone imposes their convictions upon me or even tells me I'm not even saved if I don't hold their convictions, I have a great dislike for that!

Esther · #58 06-18-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOUNWORTHY

I believe those of you who have dropped the standards are more concerned about we who have not dropped the standards than we who have not dropped the standards are concerned about you who have. I feel it's between you and God and that should concern you.

I also feel that the reason you are so concerned is because yoiu feel a little guilt deep down deep in your heart.

I also notice many of you who have dropped the standards have a great dislike for UPC or anyone who has not dropped the standards.

Does it not concern you that there are standards being taught that are not even scriptural?

GrowingPains · #59 06-18-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

The only guilt I feel is from berating people over standards and telling them it was salvational. For that, I have great remorse.

I don't have a great dislike for the UPCI or anyone who has not dropped standards. I have great respect for anyone who holds to their convictions. However, when someone imposes their convictions upon me or even tells me I'm not even saved if I don't hold their convictions, I have a great dislike for that!

What of the ministers that don't think you're unsaved, but do think you are unwise (on whatever the given issues were). Just as you believe their position is unwise, right? Playing the DA on this one.

Church definitely needs balance. Some act like the teenager raised in a strict home, that at 18 years old they wig out into the far extreme of their newfound liberties. This has been my concern and pain for those who have left -- not that they aren't saved, but how far will that pendulum swing? This also causes me to re-examine these fences in the first place, and make sure they aren't the result of this.

GrowingPains · #60 06-18-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esther

Does it not concern you that there are standards being taught that are not even scriptural?

If a church community decides not to wear jewelry, because they think we ought to not be flashy, and have a good explanation... all power to you (just don't think I'm unsaved for disagreeing) -- and don't use a scripture out of its context to back that up.