Ministries for women porn addicts

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Your position places biology above biblical commandment. God fully recognizes that younger people have stronger biological urges than older. But his commandments are for all, not simply the old. When Paul said that God provides a way of escape for those tempted, that is not simply a promise for the old, but for all. While I agree that "these human needs" are universal, the behavior is not condoned by God.

Yes, I'm familiar with Dr. Dobson's position on this, and I think he's mistaken. Basically, he has stated that he sees nothing wrong with pre-married adolescent males engaging in "self gratification", but that it would be wrong for them to continue this behavior after marriage. Here's why I disagree with his first assertion:
1)- Dr. Dobson acknowledges that human males are aroused via visual stimulation (looking at women, etc.)

2)- Unmarried males have no partner which they can fantasize about during self-gratification, therefore, they are prone to fantasize about women to whom they are not married.

3)- Since Jesus said that if a man (including young males) looks on (which includes fantasizing) a woman to lust after her, he has already committed adultery. This would extend to unmarried men fantasizing over unmarried women, which would be fornication- and still sin.

4)- Once a behavior such as self gratification is established in a young male, it does have a high probability of being continued into adulthood and into the marriage relationship.

5)- Married adult males who previously fantasized about women during self-gratification before marriage have a high probability of continuing this behavior once married. This is adultery.

So, what is the answer for young males (or females) who have "overwhelming" urges they can't contain? As you so adeptly suggested: PRAY PRAY PRAY FAST FAST FAST. This is not just for young people, but individuals of all ages. Since when are we, as a temple of the Holy Ghost, permitted to be ruled by our carnal nature? You keep suggesting that since these type of urges are "natural", that somehow it's okay to fulfill them. That's simply not Bible. Paul said he died daily! He said he brought under his body, and kept it under subjection. We are not to be ruled by our passions and lusts. That's called carnality! I don't care what age someone might be. If they've received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, then God gives them power over the flesh. If they do not practice this, then they are living in carnality.

I was filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost at the age of 16. I did not engage in carnal behavior because I PRAYED AND FASTED. When my wife and I got married, both our virginity was in tact. That sort of thing is possible because the Holy Ghost makes it possible. "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh."

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Your position places biology above biblical commandment. God fully recognizes that younger people have stronger biological urges than older. But his commandments are for all, not simply the old. When Paul said that God provides a way of escape for those tempted, that is not simply a promise for the old, but for all. While I agree that "these human needs" are universal, the behavior is not condoned by God.

Yes, I'm familiar with Dr. Dobson's position on this, and I think he's mistaken. Basically, he has stated that he sees nothing wrong with pre-married adolescent males engaging in "self gratification", but that it would be wrong for them to continue this behavior after marriage. Here's why I disagree with his first assertion:
1)- Dr. Dobson acknowledges that human males are aroused via visual stimulation (looking at women, etc.)

2)- Unmarried males have no partner which they can fantasize about during self-gratification, therefore, they are prone to fantasize about women to whom they are not married.

3)- Since Jesus said that if a man (including young males) looks on (which includes fantasizing) a woman to lust after her, he has already committed adultery. This would extend to unmarried men fantasizing over unmarried women, which would be fornication- and still sin.

4)- Once a behavior such as self gratification is established in a young male, it does have a high probability of being continued into adulthood and into the marriage relationship.

5)- Married adult males who previously fantasized about women during self-gratification before marriage have a high probability of continuing this behavior once married. This is adultery.

So, what is the answer for young males (or females) who have "overwhelming" urges they can't contain? As you so adeptly suggested: PRAY PRAY PRAY FAST FAST FAST. This is not just for young people, but individuals of all ages. Since when are we, as a temple of the Holy Ghost, permitted to be ruled by our carnal nature? You keep suggesting that since these type of urges are "natural", that somehow it's okay to fulfill them. That's simply not Bible. Paul said he died daily! He said he brought under his body, and kept it under subjection. We are not to be ruled by our passions and lusts. That's called carnality! I don't care what age someone might be. If they've received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, then God gives them power over the flesh. If they do not practice this, then they are living in carnality.

I was filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost at the age of 16. I did not engage in carnal behavior because I PRAYED AND FASTED. When my wife and I got married, both our virginity was in tact. That sort of thing is possible because the Holy Ghost makes it possible. "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh."

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Your position places biology above biblical commandment. God fully recognizes that younger people have stronger biological urges than older. But his commandments are for all, not simply the old. When Paul said that God provides a way of escape for those tempted, that is not simply a promise for the old, but for all. While I agree that "these human needs" are universal, the behavior is not condoned by God.

Yes, I'm familiar with Dr. Dobson's position on this, and I think he's mistaken. Basically, he has stated that he sees nothing wrong with pre-married adolescent males engaging in "self gratification", but that it would be wrong for them to continue this behavior after marriage. Here's why I disagree with his first assertion:
1)- Dr. Dobson acknowledges that human males are aroused via visual stimulation (looking at women, etc.)

2)- Unmarried males have no partner which they can fantasize about during self-gratification, therefore, they are prone to fantasize about women to whom they are not married.

3)- Since Jesus said that if a man (including young males) looks on (which includes fantasizing) a woman to lust after her, he has already committed adultery. This would extend to unmarried men fantasizing over unmarried women, which would be fornication- and still sin.

4)- Once a behavior such as self gratification is established in a young male, it does have a high probability of being continued into adulthood and into the marriage relationship.

5)- Married adult males who previously fantasized about women during self-gratification before marriage have a high probability of continuing this behavior once married. This is adultery.

So, what is the answer for young males (or females) who have "overwhelming" urges they can't contain? As you so adeptly suggested: PRAY PRAY PRAY FAST FAST FAST. This is not just for young people, but individuals of all ages. Since when are we, as a temple of the Holy Ghost, permitted to be ruled by our carnal nature? You keep suggesting that since these type of urges are "natural", that somehow it's okay to fulfill them. That's simply not Bible. Paul said he died daily! He said he brought under his body, and kept it under subjection. We are not to be ruled by our passions and lusts. That's called carnality! I don't care what age someone might be. If they've received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, then God gives them power over the flesh. If they do not practice this, then they are living in carnality.

I was filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost at the age of 16. I did not engage in carnal behavior because I PRAYED AND FASTED. When my wife and I got married, both our virginity was in tact. That sort of thing is possible because the Holy Ghost makes it possible. "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh."

:b liss

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Your position places biology above biblical commandment. God fully recognizes that younger people have stronger biological urges than older. But his commandments are for all, not simply the old. When Paul said that God provides a way of escape for those tempted, that is not simply a promise for the old, but for all. While I agree that "these human needs" are universal, the behavior is not condoned by God.

Yes, I'm familiar with Dr. Dobson's position on this, and I think he's mistaken. Basically, he has stated that he sees nothing wrong with pre-married adolescent males engaging in "self gratification", but that it would be wrong for them to continue this behavior after marriage. Here's why I disagree with his first assertion:
1)- Dr. Dobson acknowledges that human males are aroused via visual stimulation (looking at women, etc.)

2)- Unmarried males have no partner which they can fantasize about during self-gratification, therefore, they are prone to fantasize about women to whom they are not married.

3)- Since Jesus said that if a man (including young males) looks on (which includes fantasizing) a woman to lust after her, he has already committed adultery. This would extend to unmarried men fantasizing over unmarried women, which would be fornication- and still sin.

4)- Once a behavior such as self gratification is established in a young male, it does have a high probability of being continued into adulthood and into the marriage relationship.

5)- Married adult males who previously fantasized about women during self-gratification before marriage have a high probability of continuing this behavior once married. This is adultery.

So, what is the answer for young males (or females) who have "overwhelming" urges they can't contain? As you so adeptly suggested: PRAY PRAY PRAY FAST FAST FAST. This is not just for young people, but individuals of all ages. Since when are we, as a temple of the Holy Ghost, permitted to be ruled by our carnal nature? You keep suggesting that since these type of urges are "natural", that somehow it's okay to fulfill them. That's simply not Bible. Paul said he died daily! He said he brought under his body, and kept it under subjection. We are not to be ruled by our passions and lusts. That's called carnality! I don't care what age someone might be. If they've received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, then God gives them power over the flesh. If they do not practice this, then they are living in carnality.

I was filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost at the age of 16. I did not engage in carnal behavior because I PRAYED AND FASTED. When my wife and I got married, both our virginity was in tact. That sort of thing is possible because the Holy Ghost makes it possible. "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh."

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Your position places biology above biblical commandment. God fully recognizes that younger people have stronger biological urges than older. But his commandments are for all, not simply the old. When Paul said that God provides a way of escape for those tempted, that is not simply a promise for the old, but for all. While I agree that "these human needs" are universal, the behavior is not condoned by God.

Yes, I'm familiar with Dr. Dobson's position on this, and I think he's mistaken. Basically, he has stated that he sees nothing wrong with pre-married adolescent males engaging in "self gratification", but that it would be wrong for them to continue this behavior after marriage. Here's why I disagree with his first assertion:
1)- Dr. Dobson acknowledges that human males are aroused via visual stimulation (looking at women, etc.)

2)- Unmarried males have no partner which they can fantasize about during self-gratification, therefore, they are prone to fantasize about women to whom they are not married.

3)- Since Jesus said that if a man (including young males) looks on (which includes fantasizing) a woman to lust after her, he has already committed adultery. This would extend to unmarried men fantasizing over unmarried women, which would be fornication- and still sin.

4)- Once a behavior such as self gratification is established in a young male, it does have a high probability of being continued into adulthood and into the marriage relationship.

5)- Married adult males who previously fantasized about women during self-gratification before marriage have a high probability of continuing this behavior once married. This is adultery.

So, what is the answer for young males (or females) who have "overwhelming" urges they can't contain? As you so adeptly suggested: PRAY PRAY PRAY FAST FAST FAST. This is not just for young people, but individuals of all ages. Since when are we, as a temple of the Holy Ghost, permitted to be ruled by our carnal nature? You keep suggesting that since these type of urges are "natural", that somehow it's okay to fulfill them. That's simply not Bible. Paul said he died daily! He said he brought under his body, and kept it under subjection. We are not to be ruled by our passions and lusts. That's called carnality! I don't care what age someone might be. If they've received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, then God gives them power over the flesh. If they do not practice this, then they are living in carnality.

I was filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost at the age of 16. I did not engage in carnal behavior because I PRAYED AND FASTED. When my wife and I got married, both our virginity was in tact. That sort of thing is possible because the Holy Ghost makes it possible. "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh."

Excellent post. That's why Paul recommended marriage instead of being "inflamed with lust." (per Strong's) If a man can't remain pure while single, he needs to marry rather than "burn."

In marriage, I completely disagree with the idea that a man or woman should gratify themselves if the spouse isn't available or willing. Science shows that while men have a higher sex drive in their younger years, it's common for women to have a higher sex drive when she's in her 30's. So either their sex drives will even out, or the woman's can actually be greater than her husband's, reversing the original problem.

Men and women should "defraud not" their spouses to prevent sexual sin. That means if my husband wants sex more than I do, I do my best to satisfy his needs. If there comes a point where our situations are reversed, he should do his best to satisfy my needs. In a marriage you work together to make sure both people are satisfied. I think it's fairly obvious how that's the most rewarding method.

I love how Dr. Laura Schlessinger responds to women who call in to her show complaining about being too tired or uninterested in sex. She basically responds with total disbelief, and recommends they try sex as a relaxation method. LOL!!!!! It sounds so simple, but really--why all the objections to sex on a regular basis? That should be an enjoyable part of marriage, and it seems like so many women dread it. If a man is married to a woman who doesn't like sex, then I feel bad for him, BUT he still has an obligation to maintain sexual purity.

Back to the original point of the thread--I am so cautious about what the kids access on the internet, because pornography is a terrible problem. I would be devastated if one of my children were to become addicted to porn--because it can distort their view of sexuality for the rest of their lives! How sad for a 17 year old girl to be addicted to pornography. I like these comments by MD on the topic of avoiding sexual sin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyTN8...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bel7HxYW5T4

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Excellent post. That's why Paul recommended marriage instead of being "inflamed with lust." (per Strong's) If a man can't remain pure while single, he needs to marry rather than "burn."

In marriage, I completely disagree with the idea that a man or woman should gratify themselves if the spouse isn't available or willing. Science shows that while men have a higher sex drive in their younger years, it's common for women to have a higher sex drive when she's in her 30's. So either their sex drives will even out, or the woman's can actually be greater than her husband's, reversing the original problem.

Men and women should "defraud not" their spouses to prevent sexual sin. That means if my husband wants sex more than I do, I do my best to satisfy his needs. If there comes a point where our situations are reversed, he should do his best to satisfy my needs. In a marriage you work together to make sure both people are satisfied. I think it's fairly obvious how that's the most rewarding method.

I love how Dr. Laura Schlessinger responds to women who call in to her show complaining about being too tired or uninterested in sex. She basically responds with total disbelief, and recommends they try sex as a relaxation method. LOL!!!!! It sounds so simple, but really--why all the objections to sex on a regular basis? That should be an enjoyable part of marriage, and it seems like so many women dread it. If a man is married to a woman who doesn't like sex, then I feel bad for him, BUT he still has an obligation to maintain sexual purity.

Back to the original point of the thread--I am so cautious about what the kids access on the internet, because pornography is a terrible problem. I would be devastated if one of my children were to become addicted to porn--because it can distort their view of sexuality for the rest of their lives! How sad for a 17 year old girl to be addicted to pornography. I like these comments by MD on the topic of avoiding sexual sin:

Actually Paul's instructions to "stay as you are," whether they were slaves, singles or married people, was mostly to do with his eschatological idea of a very imminent return of Jesus. Some say he switched gears later in his ministry, but as it is we get passages like these, where he's telling single people to stay that way if they can, and slaves to just stay in the position they are. He wasn't concerned with social change because, like many of the early church, they believed the soon coming was really soon! A great contrast is to read 1 Thess against 2 Thess. Paul corrects his tone in the second letter. Men were quitting jobs and trash was filling the streets after his first letter. He had to temper that in letter #2.

I'm not sure on the "gratifying themselves" idea either. It's not really black and white IMO.. either scripturally or otherwise.

Good wisdom about protecting children in these formative years against exposure, but also giving them the wisdom and tools to confront the realities when they are unleashed to the world. Pornography is no less a statistic in the church than outside the church. In fact, many argue and have statistics showing that it's worse! This goes for "clergy," "laity" or otherwise.

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Excellent post. That's why Paul recommended marriage instead of being "inflamed with lust." (per Strong's) If a man can't remain pure while single, he needs to marry rather than "burn."

In marriage, I completely disagree with the idea that a man or woman should gratify themselves if the spouse isn't available or willing. Science shows that while men have a higher sex drive in their younger years, it's common for women to have a higher sex drive when she's in her 30's. So either their sex drives will even out, or the woman's can actually be greater than her husband's, reversing the original problem.

Men and women should "defraud not" their spouses to prevent sexual sin. That means if my husband wants sex more than I do, I do my best to satisfy his needs. If there comes a point where our situations are reversed, he should do his best to satisfy my needs. In a marriage you work together to make sure both people are satisfied. I think it's fairly obvious how that's the most rewarding method.

I love how Dr. Laura Schlessinger responds to women who call in to her show complaining about being too tired or uninterested in sex. She basically responds with total disbelief, and recommends they try sex as a relaxation method. LOL!!!!! It sounds so simple, but really--why all the objections to sex on a regular basis? That should be an enjoyable part of marriage, and it seems like so many women dread it. If a man is married to a woman who doesn't like sex, then I feel bad for him, BUT he still has an obligation to maintain sexual purity.

Back to the original point of the thread--I am so cautious about what the kids access on the internet, because pornography is a terrible problem. I would be devastated if one of my children were to become addicted to porn--because it can distort their view of sexuality for the rest of their lives! How sad for a 17 year old girl to be addicted to pornography. I like these comments by MD on the topic of avoiding sexual sin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyTN8...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bel7HxYW5T4

Thank you for these. He makes some excellent points.

[Aquila]

CONTINUED...

Absence from a spouse does not give the other the right to seek self gratification. And...if one is not able to meet the others needs, then some form of counseling is in order, not self gratification, because there's a lot more going on besides one partner being left unsatisfied in sexual intimacy. If one partner is no longer attracted to the other, then why? This must be explored rather than masking over the root cause.

Again too simplistic for me. I agree with you as far as finding out why this is happening, especially if this is leading to one partner defrauding the other of intimacy. But just because one or both partners occasionally meet personal needs, it doesn’t mean they automatically defraud the other. Some of the most loving and passionate couples have these behaviors in their marriages.

As far as one having the, “right”, to seek fulfillment… I don’t see it as a right. I simply see it as a human need. This need should not be met with any other individual accept their spouse. But this doesn’t preclude their own private activities or behaviors.

I agree that couples should focus on meeting needs in a shared way. If this cannot be done, and one partner is feeling overwhelmed by their impulses, then a time of prayer and fasting is needed. If we heed Paul's admonishment that we are not to be brought under the power of anything (except the Lord), then why are we yielding to the temptation of the flesh? This is not only unnecessary, but prohibitive to living and walking in the Spirit.

This “impulses” are not sinful or wrong. Why pray and fast to suppress them? Why not embrace these healthy desires and rejoice, thanking God for this part of our nature? Scripture holds nothing back in condemning immoral behavior from adultery to bestiality. However, no where does Scripture condemn what we are talking about. I find that interesting seeing how universal it is among adolescents and single adults out of all cultures and even religions. Self discovery for adolescents and self gratification for the single is healthy. It isn’t dirty or unclean. It’s perfectly normal.

Hmmm... I'm trying to think of a euphemism for "HOGWASH!". My friend, what you've written reflects the expectation of society, but not of Scripture. Again, the unstated premise here is that individuals have a right to sexual gratification. Simply because they have the capacity for it does not mean God grants them the right to it. There is only one area in which God sanctions this: within the marriage bond as a shared experience. Outside of the marriage bond, God calls for chastity.

God created people with this as part of our nature. It’s part of who and what we are. It’s not unclean, unhealthy, unchaste, or sinful. It’s a beautiful part of being a human being. Rather alone or with one’s spouse, this is a blessing. This is far more than a right; this is a gift and a blessing. It’s not strictly for procreation nor is it strictly for marriage. However, any act with another individual is strictly confined to marriage.

I'm not sure how you concluded there was no condemnation in this passage. Paul is specifically contrasting himself (an individual with self control- one who has not given himself over to "burning with passion"- with those who have given themselves over to this.

According to this logic it would be God’s perfect will that we all be celibates and non-sexual beings. I think this is a distortion of what is being taught here. Paul admonished singles and widows to be celibate as he was. However, Paul himself acknowledged that not every person has the gift he had. Remember, Paul is sharing his own thoughts here. We don’t have a “Thus saith the LORD” on this matter from Paul. Paul continues by simply saying that if one cannot contain, let them marry for it is better to marry than to burn with the passions of unfulfilled needs. Paul doesn’t condemn them as sinners or unclean people. If they are sinful unclean people…why admonish they marry??? In this case it would only be proper to command repentance. But Paul is rather pragmatic. If one cannot contain due to unmet needs they should look to marry. Paul didn’t condemn in any way. Paul just admonished that they do well to look to marry because it’s better than burning with unmet needs. And I believe any single or widow who has these unmet needs that they cannot contain will agree.

For the latter, it is better for them to marry. But why? Because it is within marriage one finds the proper expression of sexual desire. What Paul did NOT say was that it was okay for those who "burned with passion" to find expression through self gratification. He deliberately points them to the marriage bond.

Paul never issued any condemnation. Paul just told them that it was better to marry than to continue with unmet needs that one cannot contain. Paul never once rebukes the single or the widow who can’t contain. He simply advises that they look to marry.

Oh, I agree that it is a "natural" part of human nature to want to satisfy our own lusts. But, then again, human nature is fallen and sinful. When we become born again, and acquire a new, spiritual nature, then our desire should be how we may please the Lord, not ourselves. And if an individual is married, then their desire is also toward their spouse, but not themselves.

I think we have to properly define “lusts”. Typically this word is used in relation to sinful desires. But not every desire is sinful. Consider the Song of Solomon. For several chapters we see two lovers thinking intimately about each other. Do we condemn them? No! We celebrate this. Whatever the result of their thinking intimately about each other we do well to celebrate their love and interest in one another. Their desire, though outside of the marriage bond, wasn’t considered sinful. It’s perfectly healthy. And if what we’re talking about is so sinful, don’t you think we should rethink the Song of Solomon? Are not these two “playing with fire” by thinking this way about each other when alone? As I said, I believe this to be normal and healthy and what becomes of it while they are individually alone is normal and healthy. However, this blessing should only be shared with another in the bonds of marriage.

My friend, I did not intend for my responses to come across as polemical, but I'm taken aback by statements like this. If this line of thinking is being taught in the churches, then it's small wonder why there is no power anymore.

The lack of power originates from our departure from truly knowing Jesus. We worship ourselves in most Apostolic churches. We preach OUR standards, OUR organizational identy, OUR traditions, OUR elders teachings, OUR opinions. We worship being Apostolic Pentecostal….we seldom worship Jesus. I’ve seen congregations sit when preaching the cross but shout about hair and dress length. Religion is the reason why our churches have no power. We’ve become the Pharisees and Sadducees of the hour.

True holiness is when a man's heart has been conquered by the Holy Ghost, when his passions and lusts are laid low, and he is completely yielded to the moving of God's Spirit in his life.

True holiness isn’t about ascetism, celibacy, and abstinence. Holiness is about being separated unto the service of the LORD and living life as God intended. God didn’t intend us to be non-sexual creatures. God created us with healthy, normal impulses, that are blessings. And these blessings should only be shared within the bonds of marriage.

This is the type of revival we should be seeking God for- a revival of holiness of the heart. When that takes place, then we will see the power return.

Amen, a biblical holiness of heart. Not a revival of misguided religious notions and traditions of a bygone generation. Holiness must be achieved for our generation in the here and now. We cannot live according to the holiness achieved by previous generations.

This thread is about addiction to pornography. This type of addiction is an outward symptom of an inward problem- indulging the lusts of self. But we do have hope. Paul points us to the cure for this:

"This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Gal 5:16)

I agree, addiction to pornography is indeed an inward problem focused on self indulgence. But this doesn’t mean that all expressions of this part of our nature is sinful unless eye to eye with our spouse in the dark.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Again too simplistic for me. I agree with you as far as finding out why this is happening, especially if this is leading to one partner defrauding the other of intimacy. But just because one or both partners occasionally meet personal needs, it doesn’t mean they automatically defraud the other. Some of the most loving and passionate couples have these behaviors in their marriages.

As far as one having the, “right”, to seek fulfillment… I don’t see it as a right. I simply see it as a human need. This need should not be met with any other individual accept their spouse. But this doesn’t preclude their own private activities or behaviors.

I don't agree with you here, but since my post, which was relevant to the conversation, was deleted, I can't tell you why.

Nonetheless, I don't agree with you.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I don't agree with you here, but since my post, which was relevant to the conversation, was deleted, I can't tell you why.

Nonetheless, I don't agree with you.

Did ya get an infraction?