A Crumbling UPC 'Fesses Up, AI is not working

[ILG]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Case in point. Peer pressure mistaken for conviction.

This is the wiggle room for the pastors to not take a stand, never preach it, say they believe it, tell people THEY have to take a stand, never draw clear lines.....just let the peer pressure do it for them. Seen it many times.

[On The Wheel]

Originally Posted by ILG

This is the wiggle room for the pastors to not take a stand, never preach it, say they believe it, tell people THEY have to take a stand, never draw clear lines.....just let the peer pressure do it for them. Seen it many times.

So true!





So sad!

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Most pastors would counsel an immediate marriage in such a case; not dissolution of the relationship, unless the relationship itself was already adulterous or immoral in some other way. Preaching the Word would certainly include a recommendation against continued fornication, and relaying God's commandments in that regard sooner rather than later. I wouldn't withhold the truth about sinful behavior to new converts, and neither would most pastors.

More to the point, when pastors withhold information or delay certain teachings, it reveals their true feelings about the importance of those teachings.

Let's say that a man and woman were both divorced and began living together. Both had children. They lived together for five years or so before coming into the church. They know they are sinning. They know God has shed an amazing grace in their lives. I think we often jump to counseling them to do things. That's man's way. Let the Spirit work. Sure, answer their questions truthfully. However, allow the Word to work a work in their lives. I've known many couples who attended church for a couple years before finally getting married and they are very happy and serving the Lord. I think we often complicate things by getting our hands all up in people's lives. God's Word is capable to address issues all by itself if preached.

Now, I'd encourage marriage. Don't get me wrong. But I wouldn't demand they marry immediately or separate. I'd encourage marriage, talk about the blessings of marriage and watch as God works on them.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

eh eh eh

Never mind the fact that many still find salvation and live overcoming lives for His Names sake within the UP Churches huh?

Never mind the fact that other American churches have declined at an alarming rate, huh?

We're only talking about the UPCI. The UPCI has many unbiblical positions that are mandated as commandments. This alone is a stench in God's nostrils. Not to mention the cultic behavior of it's leaders and the micromanaging of her churches.

Personally, I think the UPCI is a bonafide cult.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by ILG

This is the wiggle room for the pastors to not take a stand, never preach it, say they believe it, tell people THEY have to take a stand, never draw clear lines.....just let the peer pressure do it for them. Seen it many times.

I have seen this too.

It is sad and much more damamging than the perpetrators really know.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I have seen this too.

It is sad and much more damamging than the perpetrators really know.

I think many of the pastors truly believe that the peer pressure is personal conviction. Of course, most of them are men and most of the changes have to take place in the woman (as far as dress standards). Peer pressure becomes known as conviction in the minds of many and many get confused about what conviction is.

[ILG]

The women freely testify about how they were "convicted" never fully realizing what took place. Thus the pastors become part of "deceiving and being deceived".

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by ILG

The women freely testify about how they were "convicted" never fully realizing what took place. Thus the pastors become part of "deceiving and being deceived".

I am not a woman, but I am convinced that many, if not most, of the women saints of the UPCI are truly convicted about the standards they keep.


Most grounded Pentecostals realize there is power in holy living-- I realize this, just hate when holiness is presented in a legalistic manner.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I am not a woman, but I am convinced that many, if not most, of the women saints of the UPCI are truly convicted about the standards they keep.


Most grounded Pentecostals realize there is power in holy living-- I realize this, just hate when holiness is presented in a legalistic manner.

Maybe they are. But I think a lot of the new converts aren't so much.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I am not a woman, but I am convinced that many, if not most, of the women saints of the UPCI are truly convicted about the standards they keep.


Most grounded Pentecostals realize there is power in holy living-- I realize this, just hate when holiness is presented in a legalistic manner.

There is no power in Holy Living.

Power is found only in one's position in Christ Jesus. Holy Living glorifies the self, he who lives "holy" or by law, not Christ Jesus.

There isn't any power in hair, clothing, wordrobe, lack of jewelry, etc. Those are all carnal and natural ordinances of man.

If you're saved... you're dead. It's not about what you do "for" Christ. A dead man can do nothing. It's what you do "in" Christ. Power and salvation is based on position not performance.

No one is sinless. No one is perfect. If one thinks they're truly "holy" and have "power" because of their "holiness"... I think they've lost sight of how truly wretched and sinful we are as human beings. Even our "holiness" is full of sinful pride and self worship. God isn't impressed. God sees a harlot from the street struggling with sin and shame who pleads for His grace based on what Christ has done as more righteous than the prim and proper family abiding by "holiness" law. When God sees the one focused on His own Holiness... God sees the filthy rags covering sinful arrogance and religious pride. When God sees a harlot crying for mercy and grace... Christ's righteousness is imputed to her... when God sees her... He sees the blood of Jesus Christ. Positionally all charges are dropped against her past, present and future. Christ's grace is radical and scandalous.

Sadly...standards get more glory than Christ's finished work on the cross that forgives ALL sins: past, present, and future. Our entire lives are hidden in Christ Jesus, a parenthetical covered in His sinless blood.