Real tongues or fake tongues?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by renee819

Because tongues is not a holier than thou gift to be paraded.

Certainly, but I think that we know, ourselves, whether we are acting hoiler than thou with it. And we can't help if others don't care if they are or not.

You make a good point, but I believe that according to Paul's instructions, that is not the time to be praying in tongues, out loud.

I believe you and I agree that we view the scripture differently.

I, again, see Paul instructing, in I Cor 14:5 "I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied:"

And, again, "rather" is defined in the Greek as, "in a greater degree".

Because the definition is saying, and it does means "greater", I couldn't, in good conscience, form a doctrine or teaching to "never" speak out loud in tongues during a congregational setting unless there is an interpretation.

Of course, to clarify, I don't mean to speak in that louder, certain sound we are familiar with that does warrant an interpretation.

"Greater" cannot, at any time, mean "never", it can only mean, "to a larger degree."

I also think you and I will agree that many churches do speak in tongues more than they prophesy, and that is a shame the passage is not taught correctly.

In my experience, most of the "older" people, mostly women, have taught us that we shouldn't prophesy too much as it would become mundane, God doesn't want us to do that, it wouldn't feel special, etc., yada, yada, yada.

But, this is incorrect teaching. And it is also my experience that you can't show them in the Word. They don't want it and they don't want to be corrected by it.

I haven't been active in church for quiet some time, and I know that if I was praying for someone, I would find it hard not to pray in tongues. And yet, I would remind myself, “that's not the time to be praying in tongues.”

I believe that, for me, being away from the church body would not be healthy for my spiritual life. When you are in a church body, you must always seek to be more humble among those you do not agree with, and it gives you a necessary barometer to make self correction through the avenue of the five-fold ministry.

No way would I ever forbid to speak in tongues, except when it is out of order.
I think we need more of it. But it needs to be done right, with the interpretation. Since the gifts were given to edify the church, how is the church going to be edified if no one uses their gifts.

I think I shared my views on this, above. We did have a man, in our congregation, who would spout out very loudly in tongues, there was no interpretation and you could feel there would not be, although, others may have thought it would come. I prayed God would remove this man from our assembly and he is now gone - thought the music was too loud. LOL! Whatever, bye-bye. LOL!

Do you have the gift of interpretation? Can you give me and others some instructions on it.

Yes, I am used in both tongues and interpretation. What advice? I will share a story that only ties in with simply following after God's Spirit and who we are in this realm.

A lesson I learned early - Some years ago a woman was praying at the altar. I could sense she was struggling. I stayed where I was and prayed for her. Then I felt that God wanted me to speak in her ear. I told her what God wanted her to know and after I stepped away, the Spirit of God moved over her, and she was strengthened by His Spirit.

When I stepped away, God spoke this to my heart - "...rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your name is written in heaven." From Luke 10:20

The short of it is, we are instruments of HIS peace, we are not our own, but bought with a price. If we can remember the words Jesus spoke in Luke, we will be all right. We are only messengers and nothing to be exploited.

Sometimes, again from my experience, upon being used in the gifts people can make a big deal about it and try to make you a rock star, which the Disciples experienced. It can be very annoying at times, because while wanting to follow carefully after His Spirit in all things, people want to push you into action or for immediate answers. They want everyone healed, everyone blessed, etc. God is not quick about everything and we must wait on His timing. I want to be used in the gifts, it is the beauty of the NT church, but it can also be a burden.

And from experience, you can also become a huge failure deviating from your commitment to that calling. If you become tired, lowering your hands in personal devotion, Bible reading and worship, you can reach out for the things of this world to comfort you in your pain. God is the only one that can heal us and strengthen us. So I think the scripture is true, "Too much is given, much is required" and we just need to keep fighting the good fight of faith, laying hold on eternal life - God help us all.

When I didn't speak out and I told the one that did interpret, she said if I had interpreted the words that I was given, more would have been given to me.

We are always learning and given another opportunity. I went through a very horrible spiritual trial (as a new convert), and I felt alone. I remember sitting on the floor by the window in my apartment and I looked out, saw the wind blowing the leaves in the tree, and said to God, (knowing He was our Creator and created everything- including the wind), "I know you are real! I can see the wind blowing. You have to help me." I can't share more because He told me never to speak of it again. But, in short, it took me a couple of years to lift my hands in church, I was that afraid.

Then one day, at a Ladies Prayer meeting, the woman in charge began to pray for me. She spoke these words over me, "I am the Lord thy God that led thee out of Egypt. I will deliver you now if you will fully yield yourself to me. I will give you strength to throw off the oppressor."

I still get tears in my eyes when I share that. I was delivered of my fear that day. I was never afraid to pray, to lift my hands in worship, to be used in the gifts. So, if you think I am very passionate about how I feel - I am, because today I am not afraid anymore. I know my Redeemer lives and He is ever mindful of my needs. God is altogether lovely...

I shared that because of what you wrote last. I attended a Home Missions work that desperately wanted to hear from God and I quenched the Spirit because I was still living in horrible fear. I wouldn't bring forth the interpretation. God didn't use someone else that morning. But, after I was delivered of my fear, He did use me again. And it so happened, I revisited that same church some time after and was given another chance. That time, I wasn't afraid and brought forth the interpretation. God is good.

[renee819]

Originally Posted by renee819

I was in a large church, and gave my testimony of being healed of Myasthenia Gravis. After which, I was asked to pray for a blind boy. I said a few words in English and then in my ignorance, the most of my prayer was in tongues.
I wish I could do that all over again. I would not today pray in tongues

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Timmy asked,

Was he healed?

Not that I know of. I never saw him after that.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by renee819

The man was preaching, he didn't speak in tongues as a message from God. If so then after he spoke in tongues then he should have waited for an interpretation. But it was for show.

But if he DID wait and there was no interpretation, was he out of order for speaking in tongues?

The lady was praying for a persons healing. Paul says, if you pray or bless someone in tongues, how can a person in the room bless it, not knowing what you prayed.

That does not mean you can't pray in tongues. In fact Paul said

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.

You see? Paul does both.

Was she bringing a message in tongues to be interpreted? No.
I believe that Paul is teaching them, the only time that speaking in Unknown Tongues in church is appropriate, is when God is sending a message to be interpreted.

If that is true wouldn't there always be an interpretation? If that is true would Paul speak of praying or singing in tongues?

If that were true where in Acts is someone giving an Interpretation by the Gift of Interpretation.

What was "out of order" was in a service "messages in tongues" were occurring and they were all giving them and nobody was interpreting

Now back to the chicken and the egg, which comes first.

If you know the people in the church, you will know if there is anyone there that has the gift of interpretation.

You never know when God might give someone the gift until you give a message in tongues and they interpret. That is the point, you can know them all you want but until the give an interpretation the first time you just don't know they have that gift.

So consider a church that just begins in a city and they have 8 people. They don't know yet who has that gift until an actual message comes forth.

It is a gift just as the gift of divers/unknown tongues is a gift. But if God inspires you to speak out, then usually there is someone there that can interpret. like the example above that I felt that I had the interpretation but I didn't speak out. The lady that brought the interpretation had never done that before.

If that is true then there would be no reason for Paul to tell them to keep silent if there is no interpreter. There would be no reason to tell them to pray FOR that gift

Right! If they had been bringing forth a message to be interpreted. Where they? NO! Did they wait for an interpretation? NO!

Im not talking about the video. Im talking about a general service.

Second you are admitting it wasn't a message in tongues, so the video is irrelevant

The point is Paul is regulating the gift of tongues for church edification. He is saying to speak at most 3 and if there is no interpretation by then keep quiet (speak in tongues to yourself)

[renee819]

Prazaes, I no longer know what our discussion is about! We agree on most things, but you keep pushing the point that I think that we have to know if there is an interpreter or not before we can speak. When that isn't what I meant. We have to speak first. If we know that someone in the audience has the gift of interpretation, then you know that it will be interpreted. If you don't know, then the church prays that someone will be given the interpretation. And I have seen God use someone the first time.

Originally Posted by renee819

The man was preaching, he didn't speak in tongues as a message from God. If so then after he spoke in tongues then he should have waited for an interpretation. But it was for show.

Praxaes wrote

But if he DID wait and there was no interpretation, was he out of order for speaking in tongues?

NO! He had to speak first. It was left up to God and people being obedient to follow through.

Renee wrote,

The lady was praying for a persons healing. Paul says, if you pray or bless someone in tongues, how can a person in the room bless it, not knowing what you prayed

.

Praxes wrote,

That does not mean you can't pray in tongues. In fact Paul said

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.

You see? Paul does both

.

You have got to put that whole passage in context.

1 Cor. 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue

.

So where did Paul pray in tongues and sing in tongues? Seeing that he said, “Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.”
If he spoke in tongues more than all of them, and he insists that it be interpreted, then if he spoke all of those tongues in church, then there was a lot of interpreting going on. Or else he was praying and singing in tongues at home.
I could be wrong, but I believe if people are speaking in tongues and there is no interpretation, they are just “speaking into the air.”

1 Corinthians 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air

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I would love to be wrong. Because it is easier to pray in tongues, (you don't even have to think, and the Spirit is praying the perfect prayer, because many times we don't know what to pray for)

But in English, you have to think. And I never was good at praying pretty prayers. And at times I have been prayed for, when the prayer itself blessed me, whether I received what we were praying for or not.
So when I pray, I flat out ask God to do what is needed, which turns out o be a short prayer. But I notice, that is also the way Jesus prayed as well as the apostles. Except for the Lords prayer.