Love One Another and the Cross

[shazeep]

well, you are welcome to present one, but one concept at a time, please, and as i said, remember what happened @ 2John, okay? Trust that readers will come to see truth, and that

"You aren't grasping the point that love is vital but only after We get saved. Otherwise our love does not save us no matter how much good it does. All that and more comes after we're saved"

is a lie, and is false doctrine, as i have been demonstrating in Scripture. Direct quotes. And since we are on a wheel now, I'm just going to find the old posts and repost them. I'll even preview how it will go:

You "You are saved when you accept the cross with your mouth at the altar."
Me "Can this salvation be lost?"
You "Have you ever lost a gift?"
Me "Then, if i can lose it by works, it follows that i must find it by works."

and again, i'll ask that you examine whether you need things to be the way you say more than God does.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, you are welcome to present one, but one concept at a time, please, and as i said, remember what happened @ 2John, okay? Trust that readers will come to see truth, and that

"You aren't grasping the point that love is vital but only after We get saved. Otherwise our love does not save us no matter how much good it does. All that and more comes after we're saved"

is a lie, and is false doctrine, as i have been demonstrating in Scripture. Direct quotes. And since we are on a wheel now, I'm just going to find the old posts and repost them. I'll even preview how it will go:

You "You are saved when you accept the cross with your mouth at the altar."
Me "Can this salvation be lost?"
You "Have you ever lost a gift?"
Me "Then, if i can lose it by works, it follows that i must find it by works."

and again, i'll ask that you examine whether you need things to be the way you say more than God does.

Him just relating what the bible says. I will show you where this is in the bible. The bible gave me these beliefs. I did I Not contrive them and think to force them into scripture. Lol

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Him just relating what the bible says. I will show you where this is in the bible. The bible gave me these beliefs. I did I Not contrive them and think to force them into scripture. Lol

i understand that; these interpretations were handed down to us. If you have some post that you feel i did not address, feel free to repost it. However, "Love" being 9/10ths of the law and prophets is going to be hard to overcome, imo. I suggest that the RCC did this to retain some control.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i understand that; these interpretations were handed down to us. If you have some post that you feel i did not address, feel free to repost it. However, "Love" being 9/10ths of the law and prophets is going to be hard to overcome, imo. I suggest that the RCC did this to retain some control.

No it was not handed down to me. lol. I never heard preachers preach these issues. I am a pastor. I teach the word. I studied these passages verse by verse and learned what they teach. I learned what is written in those texts and simply related them to you.

I keep reminding you of this, and you keep missing it. Love may be 100/100ths of the Law, but IT DOES NOT SAVE because LAW DOES NOT SAVE. You repeatedly miss the point i make in saying I agree with everything you say about the need to love, except that it saves. All that the Law said about love is necessary, but does to save us from sin. IT IS TO BE DONE AFTER WE ARE SAVED.

I keep pointing to the initial point of salvation indicating IT IS NOT WORKS of love nor of anything else, and you keep pointing to what the bible never said SAVES us. Can you get my point now?

[mfblume]

Shazeep, you appear paranoid of an ulterior motive or an agenda.

lol. I am simply relating what the scriptures say. If you disagree, show me in the following explanation of thee passage verse by verse WHERE I MISSED IT and WHAT IT ACTUALLY IS SAYING. Show me what it REALLY means, and see if it says what I explain it says or not.

This was not handed down to me. I never heard pastors preach it to me. I took time and spent months studying these passages. Here is what I learned:
-----



Law existed in sequence before Christ came with grace for a distinct purpose. That purpose was to prove that we cannot work our way to heaven by obeying commandments to do good. All that the Law outlined for us will take us to heaven IF WE CAN SUCCESSFULLY OBEY THEM WITHOUT FAIL.

Here's where the bible said this:

Deuteronomy 27:26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.

Leviticus 18:5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.

But Paul explained nobody is able to keep law. he said the point of Law is to prove to man that NOBODY CAN BE GOOD ENOUGH to save themselves by works.

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

When Paul said he proved everyone is under sin, he was talking about Israel who had law versus gentiles who were heathens without any instruction from God. His point was even Jews educated by God as to how to live right could not attain such a life.

Romans 3:10-19 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. (12) They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (13) Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: (14) Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: (15) Their feet are swift to shed blood: (16) Destruction and misery are in their ways: (17) And the way of peace have they not known: (18) There is no fear of God before their eyes. (19) Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Paul quoted all these statements from LAW to the people who were under obligation to keep Law. By having quoted these statements from Law, Paul proved nobody under law could succeed. If no one under law could succeed, then obviously everyone else was a failure. So, by giving law to Israel and them being unable to keep it, we learn it's not just Gentiles who are lost in sin.... EVERYONE IS! It shuts the mouths of everyone from being able to speak up and say, "I AM RIGHTEOUS BY WORKS!"

And LAW includes the command to LOVE EACH OTHER. So, in other words, the amount of love toward each other that the Law expects us to obey and successfully accomplish in order to be righteous CANNOT BE DONE BY ANYONE.

In fact, AFTER one is saved, with God's Spirit within., THEN we can BEGIN to love people adequately. Just because people have His Spirit in them, though, does not mean they're necessarily loving like they should. THAT degree of love only comes from a spiritual maturity when a believer knows how to walk after the Spirit and seer the Spirit able to operate through us as His vessel in conjunction with Him changing our natures to love.

Once we realize no one can make themselves righteous by law, Paul then proceeded to say how we are made righteous.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Law only came to give us a knowledge of sin by having taught us NO ONE CAN MAKE THEMSELVES righteous, because a force CALLED SIN is in our lives that hinders that.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Since Law, NOW, God has revealed the God's personal righteousness to us through the gospel that is obtained as a gift for belief in Christ whose death counted as ours.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

It's for everyone WHO BELIEVES. Not who works!

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Everyone needs this route of faith for righteousness, not just heathen gentiles, people without Law of God, as the context of the first three chapters of Romans shows.

Romans 3:24-26 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; (26) To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

We are not justified by earning it through works. It is FREE! Through Christ! FAITH in his blood! WHERE IS THAT IN THE MUSLIM RELIGION, Shazeep?

Romans 3:27-28 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. (28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

There you have it!

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

No it was not handed down to me. lol. I never heard preachers preach these issues. I am a pastor. I teach the word. I studied these passages verse by verse and learned what they teach. I learned what is written in those texts and simply related them to you.

I keep reminding you of this, and you keep missing it. Love may be 100/100ths of the Law, but IT DOES NOT SAVE because LAW DOES NOT SAVE. You repeatedly miss the point i make in saying I agree with everything you say about the need to love, except that it saves. All that the Law said about love is necessary, but does to save us from sin. IT IS TO BE DONE AFTER WE ARE SAVED.

I keep pointing to the initial point of salvation indicating IT IS NOT WORKS of love nor of anything else, and you keep pointing to what the bible never said SAVES us. Can you get my point now?

yes. your point is that you need to feel superior to everyone else, and view yourself as some kind of priest, so you must needs twist or outright ignore everything i say.

[mfblume]

Speaking of the cross and what part it plays in salvation.... notice what the Koran says about it all being faked.

What so you say about this, shazeep?

Surah 4:157, Women...

"And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure."

[shazeep]

yes, and how does one show that they believe? After all, one that believeth not, and is baptized, is not saved. There is no getting around Faith without works is dead. To rephrase that, plainly, faith by itself is pointless. You must show, you cannot just say. By all means, believe and be baptized. Then, go get re-baptized, to show that you do not understand. And you will not, ever, understand, until you grasp that love is the message. Declarations of faith will not save you.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

yes, and how does one show that they believe? After all, one that believeth not, and is baptized, is not saved. There is no getting around Faith without works is dead. To rephrase that, plainly, faith by itself is pointless. You must show, you cannot just say. By all means, believe and be baptized. Then, go get re-baptized, to show that you do not understand. And you will not, ever, understand, until you grasp that love is the message. Declarations of faith will not save you.

Keep ignoring how I said that. Declaring saves no one. Believing saves.

Bye.

[shazeep]

So then, you admit that other Christians might be saved? Excellent. Of course, you have to renounce your OP oaths now, or be shunned, i guess?