Does the golden rule save without the cross? - Page 6

shazeep · #51 08-09-2016, 10:01 AM

well?

shazeep · #52 08-09-2016, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Here are the core beliefs of error I am trying to expose:

It is clear from this exchange that Shazeep holds to the view that the golden rule "fulfills the law" like the cross "fulfils the law." Therefore, to Shazeep, obeying the golden rule saves you without your knowledge of the cross of Jesus whatsoever, because in his mind "fulfilling the law" is the same thing as being saved.

Posts from another thread on July 20th

Shazeep seems to feel that asking forgiveness OF PEOPLE is like salvation by the cross when we ask forgiveness of GOD. He can correct me if necessary, but that is what I am getting from his statements here

July 19th

July 19th

So, it is satanic to believe that one MUST know about the cross or be lost, according to Shazeep. That is what I have been espousing. He claims it is satanic to believe mulsims will be lost since they do not believe the cross even occurred, therefore seeing them manifgest no faith whatsoever in the work of the cross.

So he believes there are many mansions in the Father's house, as if to imply other beliefs about salvation are acceptable. He can correct me if I am wrong. Many mansions has nothing to do with many DOCTRINES and OPINIONS of salvation.

He says what sounds sacreliegious is eternal life without recognizing Christ's sacrifice on the cross. And what sounds sacreligious is what fulfills the law. So, once again he equates fulfilling the law with salvation.

This is dishonest. He says the golden rule fulfils the law, so it's the same thing as faith in the cross saving us, since the cross also fulfils the law. And he says it may sound sacreligious to say one need no awareness of Christ's sacrifice if one obeys the golden rule, meaning one is saved. But IDEALLY, he says, one should have both the golden rule and the cross. And when I respond saying the use of the word IDEALLY means faith in the cross is not absolutely necessary, he says that is not what he said. He says that is me trying to serve myself so I can perceive myself as one who has knowledge.

Okaaaay.

The truth is it does not serve me. It is what he said. He said IDEALLY we need the cross as well as loving each other. That implies that less than ideally -- IOW, no faith in the cross -- one is still saved. Ideally is what is best, but not vital. Unless IDEALLY means something else to you than the dictionary's definition.

Unless he is trying to say that the "CROSS" for our salvation is not restricted to Christ's specific death on the cross, but to obeying the golden rule, which is the same thing as Christ's cross. In fact, I think this is what he means. He once said we must carry our crosses when I would say that the cross saves. He then equates US CARRYING OUR CROSSES with Christ's death on the cross. In his mind this means if we know nothing about Christ's death on the cross, we can still be saved by carrying our crosses, which is what the golden rule is all about. Thus, Christ's sacrifice is ABSENT from this salvation, but in his mind it's JUST AS GOOD as OUR sacrifice.

see that you are not trying to understand this, but rather taking every opportunity to preach your opinion on the matter, and using every device and sophistry possible to discount what i mean, when i am only suggesting that one heed the Word of Christ, and not the words of men.

shazeep · #53 08-09-2016, 10:14 AM

Mike
"asking forgiveness OF PEOPLE is like salvation by the cross when we ask forgiveness of GOD"

are you sure? you better be sure, because you are gambling your salvation on this.

God has already forgiven you, what is the point of asking God and neglecting to ask from whom you have wronged? See that the first one is painless for you, as well as being pointless if you won't do the second, while the second one is hard or impossible for many, and requires a change of heart. (Note that i am not saying to not confess your sins to God and ask forgiveness, however).

You once again resort to empty words said in private as a remedy for sin, when what is demanded is an action done in the same arena in which the sin was committed.

shazeep · #54 08-09-2016, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Beloved, it does not interest me what shazeep as to say or offer. I have heard enough of his using a little truth to introduce a lie.

and once again wadr it appears that you have talked enough without saying anything that you can back up.

YounginHope · #55 08-09-2016, 10:41 AM

Fruit inspectors beware of this thread. Wow. Lots of long-suffering and kindness being thrown around. Meekness and temperance abounds. God help us if these be your elect.

Esaias · #56 08-09-2016, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YounginHope

Fruit inspectors beware of this thread. Wow. Lots of long-suffering and kindness being thrown around. Meekness and temperance abounds. God help us if these be your elect.

It only took you one post to go from zero to this?

lol Talk about fruit inspector.

YounginHope · #57 08-09-2016, 01:17 PM

You have no trouble going off on people you obviously don't like or disagree with on this forum. Usually un-provoked. How that is Godly or displays the fruit of the Spirit I have no idea. That bully attitude is from a different gospel.

Esaias · #58 08-09-2016, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YounginHope

You have no trouble going off on people you obviously don't like or disagree with on this forum. Usually un-provoked. How that is Godly or displays the fruit of the Spirit I have no idea. That bully attitude is from a different gospel.

Kind of like you, eh? I disagree with everyone here on something or another. I don't "go off" on anyone. I do call a troll a troll, though. And if I see some silly hypocritical post, I just might (if I'm bored) say something to point it out. Sorry my posting isn't up to your standards of holy online behavior.

But like I told the other guy, "Lighten up, Francis."

YounginHope · #59 08-09-2016, 02:48 PM

Sure thing, boss. My standards? You mean the Fruit of the Spirit? Yeah, no reason to expect to see that in the "fellowship hall".

Esaias · #60 08-09-2016, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YounginHope

Sure thing, boss. My standards? You mean the Fruit of the Spirit? Yeah, no reason to expect to see that in the "fellowship hall".

So, your only contribution to the thread was a 'rebuke' to various people about how mean and nasty they are. You said (or at least strongly implied) they were not showing any meekness or not being longsuffering.

In other words, you just show up and without any meekness or longsuffering you accuse others of not being meek or longsuffering.

And yes, I mean YOUR standards. If you think your petty little opinions of someone ELSE'S conversation are God's, well, then, you've got bigger problems to worry about than people's posting etiquette.

Apparently you're one of those thread nazis, here to correct everyone's boorish and nikulturniy behaviour. And of course, you couldn't possibly be wrong, no, you're on a Mission to make sure everyone else is living up to your personal opinions.

So some troll is on here lying about people and spewing antichrist doctrines of demons, and we see who you feel the need to correct.

Yeah, 'your opinions' is exactly right. I'm pretty sure being intellectually honest is some kind of result of the Spirit, don't you think?

Sorry, but not everyone is really concerned about making sure you have a happy space to avoid 'microaggressions', like people actually disagreeing with you. Haven't we been here before? Oh yeah, that's right. You said something once and I simply disagreed with it and you went off like a hot air balloon in the arctic.

And if you think anybody here on AFF is 'bullying' you must not get out of the house much.