Is baptism essential unto salvation?

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by Sam

A note in the margin of my Bible at Jeremiah chapter 31 says:

The New Covenant is a "gift certificate" for salvation. The merchandise is not free. Someone paid the price. We just go to the store and claim the purchased item.

Sam, exactly. On there is a process for claiming your gift. Starts with an ID that bears His name.

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by Adino

Cannot leave without addressing this fallacy, Bro. If all Oneness preachers will from this moment on cease teaching their view of Acts 2:38 and John 3:5 to their already saved congregations then maybe this position would have more merit. There is a reason it continues to be taught. That reason is to safeguard the message.
There is no doubt the Gospel message permeates the epistles. In fact, it is delved into more deeply in the epistles than it is anywhere else in Scripture. This was done in order to ensure that is was safeguarded against extreme gnostic and/or pagan views trying to creep into the 1st century Church and corrupt its purity.

I'll give you the last word on this, because I want to address your thoughts on John 3:5.

The same reason your kind of church emphasizes over and over again its own message. Nothing is wrong with this. Why would we cease teaching one of the most powerful messages? I'm not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ...

[GrowingPains]

[QUOTE=Adino;771613]Aquila wrote:I take issue with your automatic assumption that two elements are implied. There is but one article in the phrase "born of water and of the Spirit." This single article connects only to the word "Spirit" and indicates that the preceding word, 'water,' has a close connection to the articled word 'Spirit.'

If we also recognize the word "KAI" has more than one meaning, such as is shown in 1Corinthians 15:24 which states, "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, KAI (even) the Father," we can see that John 3:5 is not offering two separate and distinct elements of a single birth but simply an emphasis on the single birth of the Spirit.

John 3:5 can be understood this way, "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water KAI (even) of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

When we allow the author to define his own terms and allow his consistent use of 'water' as a spiritual metaphor we can see that John is placing double emphasis on THE spiritual rebirth. [QUOTE]

I actually agree that John 3:5 is talking globally about a spirit birth and being "born again." Neither does that discount water baptism.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Adino is brilliant but his prejudice that colors his thinking sometimes is alarming. I read and say did he really say that?
Go teach-baptize is no longer a command.

I think he may have been going for a finer point here. What Adino seems to have been saying is that Christ commanded his apostles (and their subsequent disciples) to teach and to baptize. Christ, in this view, would not then be seen as commanding people on the street to be baptized, though baptism would obviously be a result of the apostles' teaching.

This seems to be a point that places a heavy emphasis upon the "teachers" being responsible for making sense and effectively reaching the people on the street. My experience is that few "teachers" seem to want to accept such a responsibility.

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I think he may have been going for a finer point here. What Adino seems to have been saying is that Christ commanded his apostles (and their subsequent disciples) to teach and to baptize. Christ, in this view, would not then be seen as commanding people on the street to be baptized, though baptism would obviously be a result of the apostles' teaching.

Pelathais, One has to really be creative to get around the simplicity of the great commission, which consequently is the same message recorded in Mark 16:16. All records of the Great Commission have evidence of baptism as part of their orders. Christ was not giving commands to sinners at this moment, it was to the disciples to go and make other disciples. These were their instructions.

[Adino]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

The same reason your kind of church emphasizes over and over again its own message. Nothing is wrong with this. Why would we cease teaching one of the most powerful messages? I'm not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ...

Neither was Paul, which is why the Gospel message of salvation permeates his writings..... this was my point. I'm a little surprised you missed it, Bro.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

Pelathais, ...Christ was not giving commands to sinners at this moment, it was to the disciples to go and make other disciples. These were their instructions.

And after people responded to the Gospel and were converted/saved, it is some times recorded that their conversion experience was followed by water baptism and by an empowering or baptism in the Spirit.

[Adino]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I think he may have been going for a finer point here. What Adino seems to have been saying is that Christ commanded his apostles (and their subsequent disciples) to teach and to baptize. Christ, in this view, would not then be seen as commanding people on the street to be baptized, though baptism would obviously be a result of the apostles' teaching.

Thank you, Pelathais

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

Pelathais, One has to really be creative to get around the simplicity of the great commission, which consequently is the same message recorded in Mark 16:16. All records of the Great Commission have evidence of baptism as part of their orders. Christ was not giving commands to sinners at this moment, it was to the disciples to go and make other disciples. These were their instructions.

That is the point I believe Adino was making.

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by pelathais

That is the point I believe Adino was making.

I didn't hear/see/read that point you believe he was making.