It's Time To Escape The Borg

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by OGIA

I'm finding that just as the liberal/conservative definitions have changed in American politics (you actually have to study the Republican candidate's platform to know IF he/she is truly conservative!!), so it is in the Church. There are some things I am dead set for and against (don't ask!); but there are things that I adhere to that are viewed as UC by some and things I adhere to that are viewed as liberal by some. And, they seem to be changing gradually (thank God!), so feel free to check back next week.

AMEN.
Who knows, maybe people apply titles like Con and Lib to justify dismissing the time needed to consider the content of what a person is saying in any discussion.

Ofcourse, no real student of the scripture would do this! It would be like saying "he goes to ******'s church" rather than considering if that person is a part of God's church.

It would tend toward gendering strife by comparing ourselves with one another.

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by tbpew

Who knows, maybe people apply titles like Con and Lib to justify dismissing the time needed to consider the content of a person is saying in any discussion.

I think you're probably right, tbpew.

[StillStanding]

I want to go on record that I am not of the Borg Mentali..mental....menta....ment...men...me..mmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

(somebody unplugged me! )

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Except the ultra-con cultists...right?

Then you don't believe the Phariseeical Borg Leaders are going to be lost because of how they have oppressed and manipulated the masses?

How many UC's do you regularly fellowship with?

Not really. I've seen just as much isolation, rejection and cold shoulderism from the liberal camp as I have the conservative. In fact, it has been my observation that many people who withdraw from the organization don't do so on paper only, but also withdraw from all their former fellowships and friends, and reject overtures of friendship from those previous acquaintances.

You can't say that there must be tolerance across the board if you aren't prepared to tolerate the most conservative among us, as well as the most liberal.

Aren't you asking for the ultra-conservatives to conform to a measure of tolerance, of which many view as tolerance of sin? I don't believe that's fair. The things that I view as sinful, and concretely anti-biblical, I will not tolerate, not in my home, not in any church or organization I belong to. That is not to say that I will not tolerate sinners, because we are called to minister to and preach the Gospel to sinners, but I think it ought to be obvious that I'm not implying that.

I think you are off of the reservation here.

I had to step away for a while, and Ferd defended my position so well in his earlier post. I appreciate him for it.

Let me attempt to answer some of your questions.

1. I do believe it is sinful to add to or take away from the Word. I think it is wrong to use the Word as a personal weapon to enforce personal convictions (whether conservative or liberal) on any individual church member.

2. I fellowship with many, many conservatives. I am friends with most of the conservatives on this board. I mean I am friends with them even OUTSIDE of this board. Please understand, I am not attacking conservatism. I am railing against severe extremists who's only goal is to divide and conquer.

3. I agree with statement four.

4. You obviously have not read very many of my past posts. I rail against the no standard, I can do anything I want liberals too.

5. Your last paragraph is totally wrong for the following reason: These men have agreed "not to contend for differing views" when they signed on with the UPC. They are obviously not "conforming". Sorry for the pun.

[MissBrattified]

Well...I was being rather smart-alecky in my post, and both Ferd and PP called me on it.

Sorry I wasn't more...er...insightful...it must be the DECAF coffee my mother made this morning. *gasp* I can't believe I have been sullied with that horrid stuff, and thinking I was fueling my brain, I was in fact fooling it instead.

Here's what I think:

I think The Borg mentality exists. I don't think that PP has it, nor Ferd, nor I, and wasn't trying to imply that with my post. I do think it can come from both sides, and I think it is unfair to say that a man who is refusing to tolerate what he believes is sinful is suffering from The Borg mentality.

I will agree with a generic premise, that, in many cases, members of the churches of any given organization are following rules "just because", and not because they really believe them or have searched the scriptures or because they have convictions on matters, or even have preferences.

There is something to be said for submitting to authority, but it is a bit frightening to think that we have hundreds (thousands? ...I would hope not...) of folks walking around with a form of religion, without knowing God, really, except in a distant, facade-ish, fragile and hollow sort of way. ...who have been duped into thinking that practicing a religion can be equivalent to, or take the place of, a real, consistent, personal relationship with God Himself.

As for your last comment, PP...I really don't understand why folks who aren't going to love the diversity within an organization and embrace it and fellowship with those with whom they don't see eye to eye would ever join or remain in such an organization to begin with.

There you have it. No sugar. Apparently no caffeine. That is all I have to offer with my dull head.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Miss Brattified:

There is something to be said for submitting to authority, but it is a bit frightening to think that we have hundreds (thousands? ...I would hope not...) of folks walking around with a form of religion, without knowing God, really, except in a distant, facade-ish, fragile and hollow sort of way. ...who have been duped into thinking that practicing a religion can be equivalent to, or take the place of, a real, consistent, personal relationship with God Himself.

As for your last comment, PP...I really don't understand why folks who aren't going to love the diversity within an organization and embrace it and fellowship with those with whom they don't see eye to eye would ever join or remain in such an organization to begin with.

You have captured the intent of this thread perfectly.

We are in agreement.

Reached individually, however.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I will agree with a generic premise, that, in many cases, members of the churches of any given organization are following rules "just because", and not because they really believe them or have searched the scriptures or because they have convictions on matters, or even have preferences.

There is something to be said for submitting to authority, but it is a bit frightening to think that we have hundreds (thousands? ...I would hope not...) of folks walking around with a form of religion, without knowing God, really, except in a distant, facade-ish, fragile and hollow sort of way. ...who have been duped into thinking that practicing a religion can be equivalent to, or take the place of, a real, consistent, personal relationship with God Himself.

MissBrattified, These newbs don't realize you are not just another pretty face in the crowd. You hit the issue squarely again. It is about relationships, not rote and routine. I agree it is sad the number who are lockstepped not really considering where they are even headed, or how silly they look.

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Well...I was being rather smart-alecky in my post, and both Ferd and PP called me on it.

Sorry I wasn't more...er...insightful...it must be the DECAF coffee my mother made this morning. *gasp* I can't believe I have been sullied with that horrid stuff, and thinking I was fueling my brain, I was in fact fooling it instead.

Here's what I think:

I think The Borg mentality exists. I don't think that PP has it, nor Ferd, nor I, and wasn't trying to imply that with my post. I do think it can come from both sides, and I think it is unfair to say that a man who is refusing to tolerate what he believes is sinful is suffering from The Borg mentality.

I will agree with a generic premise, that, in many cases, members of the churches of any given organization are following rules "just because", and not because they really believe them or have searched the scriptures or because they have convictions on matters, or even have preferences.

There is something to be said for submitting to authority, but it is a bit frightening to think that we have hundreds (thousands? ...I would hope not...) of folks walking around with a form of religion, without knowing God, really, except in a distant, facade-ish, fragile and hollow sort of way. ...who have been duped into thinking that practicing a religion can be equivalent to, or take the place of, a real, consistent, personal relationship with God Himself.

As for your last comment, PP...I really don't understand why folks who aren't going to love the diversity within an organization and embrace it and fellowship with those with whom they don't see eye to eye would ever join or remain in such an organization to begin with.

There you have it. No sugar. Apparently no caffeine. That is all I have to offer with my dull head.

I don't chime in much to these "deep" discussioins. It would be like bringing a chicken to a dog fight but I have to say this is one of the best posts I have ever read. BRAVO!!

It deserves the MVP!

sincerely,

a saint

[whollyHis]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Well...I was being rather smart-alecky in my post, and both Ferd and PP called me on it.

Sorry I wasn't more...er...insightful...it must be the DECAF coffee my mother made this morning. *gasp* I can't believe I have been sullied with that horrid stuff, and thinking I was fueling my brain, I was in fact fooling it instead.

Here's what I think:

I think The Borg mentality exists. I don't think that PP has it, nor Ferd, nor I, and wasn't trying to imply that with my post. I do think it can come from both sides, and I think it is unfair to say that a man who is refusing to tolerate what he believes is sinful is suffering from The Borg mentality.

I will agree with a generic premise, that, in many cases, members of the churches of any given organization are following rules "just because", and not because they really believe them or have searched the scriptures or because they have convictions on matters, or even have preferences.

There is something to be said for submitting to authority, but it is a bit frightening to think that we have hundreds (thousands? ...I would hope not...) of folks walking around with a form of religion, without knowing God, really, except in a distant, facade-ish, fragile and hollow sort of way. ...who have been duped into thinking that practicing a religion can be equivalent to, or take the place of, a real, consistent, personal relationship with God Himself.

As for your last comment, PP...I really don't understand why folks who aren't going to love the diversity within an organization and embrace it and fellowship with those with whom they don't see eye to eye would ever join or remain in such an organization to begin with.

There you have it. No sugar. Apparently no caffeine. That is all I have to offer with my dull head.

Sis...I hope and pray that your hubby AND your pastor realize how blessed they are to have you in their lives.

Wise beyond your years, and a keyboard queen...

Thank you for eloquently saying what I have been trying to put into words since first reading this thread!!!!!

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

Great post Sherri, sometimes when I write this stuff people think I am pulling it out of thin air. I am glad you have recognized it and it bothers you as well.

I have been around and around and around enough to recognize an important disconnected principal when I see one.

...people accuse me of being rational...I mean backslidden...it doesn't bother me.

Sometimes even the backslidden can see truth!

But let's not just blame the pulpit for young people getting this message, I think the Word tells us that we are to "train up a child". I have to take responsibility for training my children, and not leave it up to the Pastor, Sunday school teacher, public school teacher, Hollywood, television, etc., etc., etc.