Why I break the law

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

I guess I should have said that it applies to more than just the muzzling of the ox...as Paul states.

The Law of Moses was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. Christ epitomizes all the sacrifices of the OT. He nailed to His cross the law contained in ordinances, Eph 2:15, which no one was able to keep because of the weakness of our flesh. Rom 8:3, Acts 15:10. The old testament, which is the law of Moses, that was We are truly under grace and follow the law of God which is eternal and is fulfilled by love, Rom 7:25 Rom 13:8 Gal 5:14, not the law of God given to Moses which was temporary.


Rico, these two passages are for you.

Heb 9:18-21 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

Exo 24:3-8 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do. And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel. And he sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD. And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient. And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.




Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We don't live by the letter of the Law but the spirit of the Law. Rom 7:6, 2 Cor 3:6

[Baron1710]

Ok I am back but it's going to take me a bit to get caught up on responses and on work so here goes...

Oh and the Suburban needs a new alternator, I will have it running again in no time, after I work 11 or 12 hours today.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

The Law of Moses was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. Christ epitomizes all the sacrifices of the OT. He nailed to His cross the law contained in ordinances, Eph 2:15, which no one was able to keep because of the weakness of our flesh. Rom 8:3, Acts 15:10. The old testament, which is the law of Moses, that was We are truly under grace and follow the law of God which is eternal and is fulfilled by love, Rom 7:25 Rom 13:8 Gal 5:14, not the law of God given to Moses which was temporary.


Rico, these two passages are for you.

Heb 9:18-21 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

Exo 24:3-8 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do. And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel. And he sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD. And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient. And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.




Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We don't live by the letter of the Law but the spirit of the Law. Rom 7:6, 2 Cor 3:6

Which only changes to a more perfect reflection of God's nature! THe law is the law but how to apply the law can be difficult which was the issue with the oral traditions of the elders as they tried to apply the law to all situations by making more laws! Thus they broke the law! The Spirit which is the law/mind/will of God will lead you "to do what is right" which the MC did reflect in part but not prefectly! He will guide you to apply "the righteousness" found in the scriptures which goes not just to but beyond the MC and to the whole of the Bible.

Again to follow after the Spirit of the law vs a rigid intepretation does not change the fact that "law" is still here. It is just applied more perfectly which is TO FILL UP OR FULL FILL it more perfectly as Jesus said. I have not come to detroy but to fullfill, which can be make more perfect or fill up or make known.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Ok I am back but it's going to take me a bit to get caught up on responses and on work so here goes...

Oh and the Suburban needs a new alternator, I will have it running again in no time, after I work 11 or 12 hours today.

If the problem isn't with the bearings, you can replace the brushes in those alternators fairly easily. The regulator, if internal, can be replaced fairly easily too. It would save ya some moolah over having to buy a new alternator.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Rico

If the problem isn't with the bearings, you can replace the brushes in those alternators fairly easily. The regulator, if internal, can be replaced fairly easily too. It would save ya some moolah over having to buy a new alternator.

I don't have the time, sent her to buy a new alternator and a new belt. 30 min and it will be good as new. Going to back up in this thread and see where we left off.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

You still didn't exegete the passage. Side step all you want.

Do I obey the law? I try as best to my understanding and sanctification. I do it because it reflects the holiness of God and His character. Do I do it well? I will never do it well to I'm glorified but I sure strive to.

What part? That's an exegetical issue. I'm sure I'll be working on it till I die.

Let’s first ask How Jesus fulfilled the Prophets and what would it mean if he were to abolish them? My view is he was the fulfillment of the law and the prophets. They looked forward to Him, Jesus said that they testified of Him.

Referring to both the law AND the prophets indicates Jesus' words were about the OT as a whole and not just the law. Would you be willing to argue then that we need to continue offering sacrifices or did he fulfill that part?

The Expositor’s Commentary says, "The best interpretation of these difficult verses says that Jesus fulfills the Law and the Prophets in that they point to him, and he is their fulfillment. The antithesis is not between ‘abolish’ and ‘keep’ but between ‘abolish’ and ‘fulfill’"

Possible explanations include for what it means include:
1. Jesus came to accomplish or obey the Holy Scriptures,

2. to bring out the full meaning of the Holy Scriptures,

3. to bring those Scriptures to their intended completion,

4. to emphasize that the Scriptures point to him as Messiah and are fulfilled in his salvation work.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

That is exactly what the case law was used for. The application of the principle. It was an example of how to apply the law. Example: a wall around our roof top doesn't literally apply in this culture but a fence around our pool does. That is an application of a godly law.

That is a great example of taking a law and using them to promote safety based on the principle, but that doesn't mean a Christian is a sinner for not putting a fence around a pool. You can see the reason they were commanded to do it, but that's exactly my point, they were COMMANDED to do it.

[DividedThigh]

agreed baron, grace is superior the law leads me to Jesus

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

When Jesus established a New Covenant he established new laws, just like it says in Hebrews. It is not only wrong to murder under the New Covenant you can't hate your brother either. If it is only found in the law it stays there.

This is untrue! He could not come to "add to" that would break the law of which the old testament clearly stated would be breaking the law of "adding to or taking away."

Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Deu 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.

If Jesus did he would have been a transgressor of the law!

He may have revealed deeper the meaning but he did not add to or take away. Paul stated the LAW was to point to what SIN was. The Apostles did not have to point to what SIN was by makign a new list, it was revealed already in "the scriptures!" They did not have to point to the "letter" of to do what is right as it was already written and given and that is what he said the purpose of the MC was for. As everyone new what the LAW was about. Also anything without faith is SIN! John also clearly pointed to what sin was. Do you believe in the commandment. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself? How about love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. These are all found in the law! Someone in there view may be under grace but it doesn't take away the fact that sin is still sin and we should not continue in it and that was defined in part in the MC. Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? NO! Define sin? You have to point to the law not a new list that somehow gets defined.
Also the sacrificial aspects of the law and the priestly aspect don't point to sin or failure to love God and thy neighbor or to follow how God wants you to live. They point to Christ and his role in atonement etc... So don't try to say that to see what sin is in the MC one must follow the priestly aspects and offer sacrifices etc... Nobody is advocating that!

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

When Jesus established a New Covenant he established new laws, just like it says in Hebrews. It is not only wrong to murder under the New Covenant you can't hate your brother either. If it is only found in the law it stays there.

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

This is untrue! He could not come to "add to" that would break the law of which the old testament clearly stated would be breaking the law of "adding to or taking away."

Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Deu 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.

If Jesus did he would have been a transgressor of the law!

Your argument is with Scripture not me. So YES IT IS TRUE!

Hebrews 7:11-12
If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come—one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.