Will those that leave standards be lost?

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by COOPER

The fact is: that guard rail will not hold back a car that is going over the edge.

If there built to standad they will.......

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by keith4him

Let me define this further, I do not believe that we are saved by keeping Biblical standards, nor do I believe that by not keeping standards is one necessarily lost. Faith is what saves us period, now in the process of walking in faith (I define faith as Hearing God+obedience=Faith) one will do and not do certain things, but doing or not doing those things without faith does not matter at all period.

As the old addage says, we must not get the cart before the horse. The greater question is does the absence of faith cause one to be lost? YES it does, and the scripture is clear that one can be moral, have standards even Biblical ones, and still be lost. Hell is full of such folks.

You lost me here. Are you saying that in the process of walking in faith that it makes no difference whether you keep biblical standards?? That as long as you have faith, you are saved??



Now as to the last part, the scripture is also clear that the children of disobedience shall receive wrath, and not salvation. I agree that standards do not save. But my question is not whether they save, but if a person leaves off keeping biblical standards whether they can be saved.

Let me be clearer. Biblical moral standards do not save me, but if I stop keeping biblical moral standards, will I stay saved?

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by COOPER

I have heard many times over a UPC pulpit you can look right, act right, worship right, shout and still be lost.
In fact while apart of the UPC; I never had the complete assurance that I could be saved, I could only hope I would be saved.
And the hear the Scripture of the Man who did all things right in the sight of the lord BUT; his heart was not in it.
Who can be saved then?

They that endure to the end shall be saved. Our salvation is not a guarantee. It is a process. We trust Christ to finish that good work that he hath begun in us, and we yield to his masters touch.

[LaVonne]

Originally Posted by CareyM

It's true that there are UPC pastors who believe this kind of stuff...but they're not all that way Coop. Did you ever try a different church or maybe moving your family to place where you could attend a good church?

*Bump* for Coop!

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by CareyM

It's true that there are UPC pastors who believe this kind of stuff...but they're not all that way Coop. Did you ever try a different church or maybe moving your family to place where you could attend a good church?

Through out the years at The one and only UPC church I was apart of for seventeen years; my Pastor started easing up. Saints were told to not tell any new convert about standards. Eventually My Pastor dropped a bomb when he started preaching grace and what God requires of him is not required for the whole church. He apologized for being so hard and tuff. He said the he was afraid the UPC Manual has been put above the Bible.
Some things we teach as doctrines are not so.
While I was under a UPC Pastor and under his leading; standards were fading away and grace and Gods love and mercy were coming in to view.
I found a new trust and faith in Gods love.
My Pastor stumbled in the end, but he that has been forgiven much loves much.
My Pastor put up with My short falls and loved me even when I let him down. But he always loved me.
I loved him. He is a good man.
How could I not forgive his down falls. After All he is only a man.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Charlie Brown

They that endure to the end shall be saved. Our salvation is not a guarantee. It is a process. We trust Christ to finish that good work that he hath begun in us, and we yield to his masters touch.

Oh my word!!! God forbid!!!

A process? I suppose Jesus' Blood is applied sequentially?

Holy Cow! Do you really believe what you wrote??

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

Oh my word!!! God forbid!!!

A process? I suppose Jesus' Blood is applied sequentially?

Holy Cow! Do you really believe what you wrote??

It is all in how you define salvation. If you define it as simply the born again experience, then yes, you get it at new birth. But if you define it as the finished work of God in our lives, it comes at the end of our lives. We only get an earnest, the full deal happens at the end.

[LaVonne]

Originally Posted by COOPER

Through out the years at The one and only UPC church I was apart of for seventeen years; my Pastor started easing up. Saints were told to not tell any new convert about standards. Eventually My Pastor dropped a bomb when he started preaching grace and what God requires of him is not required for the whole church. He apologized for being so hard and tuff. He said the he was afraid the UPC Manual has been put above the Bible.
Some things we teach as doctrines are not so.
While I was under a UPC Pastor and under his leading; standards were fading away and grace and Gods love and mercy were coming in to view.
I found a new trust and faith in Gods love.
My Pastor stumbled in the end, but he that has been forgiven much loves much.
My Pastor put up with My short falls and loved me even when I let him down. But he always loved me.
I loved him. He is a good man.
How could I not forgive his down falls. After All he is only a man.

Ok, so your pastor used to preach all this stuff you listed, but then changed and started preaching love and grace and mercy...right? Well, if you loved your pastor so much and was able to forgive him, why the act against UPC? Was it because your former pastor said that what UPC preaches is above the Bible or did you and your family search all this out for yourself? I'm not being mean here...please don't get me wrong...I'm just trying to figure you out.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by CareyM

Ok, so your pastor used to preach all this stuff you listed, but then changed and started preaching love and grace and mercy...right? Well, if you loved your pastor so much and was able to forgive him, why the act against UPC? Was it because your former pastor said that what UPC preaches is above the Bible or did you and your family search all this out for yourself? I'm not being mean here...please don't get me wrong...I'm just trying to figure you out.

I thought I was loosing my mind [I was a Holiness advocate], Because the lord was dealing with me about standards about six Months before he preached it.
It only confirmed what I and many others were hearing from God too.
I saw it for my self, not just because the Pastor said so.
It was a relief to know I was not the only one.

[LaVonne]

Originally Posted by COOPER

I thought I was loosing my mind [I was a Holiness advocate], Because the lord was dealing with me about standards about six Months before he preached it.
It only confirmed what I many others were hearing from God too.
I saw it for my self, not just because the Pastor said so.
It was a relief to know I was not the only one.

Ok, I see.

Sorry you feel this way...