None of my business,why is it,when like minded people meet that belong to a org. there is a fear some are pulling out of the org. ? Or others say they are being unethical ?
Because organized religion is man-made and not bible based
Is there any way I can agree with both of these posts? I know... I know... a double-minded man is unstable in all his ways.
Seriously, though... An exclusive meeting with ONLY like-minded people is not, in my opinion, a very productive meeting. If you're just looking for a bunch of "Amen"'s and pats on the back, then that's exactly what you'll get. The scripture says that iron sharpens iron... there needs to be some grating against each other for that to happen, though.
If, on the other hand, the purpose was to write a manifesto for the purpose of presenting their disputes to a broader audience (read General Board) then that would be an exception to the statement above, in my opinion.
Again, I don't have a dog in this fight since I'm not UPCI, and have recently been railroaded and lied against by the political machinery of both UPCI and ALJC. But understanding how things work, and that the status quo for these orgs is to NOT hear debate or opposing views, I would understand the need to create a working group to form the manifesto and get all the ducks in row before presenting to the great and awesome powers that rule all of God's Kingdom. But out with it now... let's hear what you have to say... no more secrecy.
I agree with this. I just believe that sometimes we need to be sure we are balancing out and getting different perspectives when making major decisions or discussing serious matters. I'm not sure if this meeting in particular did or didn't include that, but in general, I've seen some pretty unbalanced things come out of a "bunch of like-minded people" carving a new path.
Now those of differing opinions would have to be open, honest, and earnest people in order to make any sort of progress. I'm sure that there are people like that on both sides of "the fence" in this situation.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Then it's not an "Intentional Confrontation" ... more like "Intentional Innuendo."
IF true ... I'd be upset with PM labeling TFT, RJ and others from the meeting as false prophets - regardless if done by name or innuendo. I'd have more respect if done by name, however, instead of hiding behind innuendo.
No, there are many ways to be confrontational, and both can be effective when used in the right way. Had PM went on a list of names, you'd really have yourself in a hizzy fit about what is appropriate for a campmeeting.
False prophet? Who said that? I think he warned about the damage, history and vulnerability of secret meetings. He made his point loud and clear, lest others are asked to participate in such meetings (and I'm sure that was his point).
Now, point aside, I'm not sure it was "secret", though certainly exclusive. But we've all been the kid without the birthday invitation at one time or another, right?
2 issues are here on this post:
1) Was the Detroit meeting okay?
2) Was PM in-bounds with this comments at the MS campmeeting?
For me #1 depends on many factors that I simply don't know about the meeting. And #2 is yes, he was okay to do what he did at the campmeeting. Doesn't mean I agree with his judgement, but he was perfectly within bounds.
I agree with this. I just believe that sometimes we need to be sure we are balancing out and getting different perspectives when making major decisions or discussing serious matters. I'm not sure if this meeting in particular did or didn't include that, but in general, I've seen some pretty unbalanced things come out of a "bunch of like-minded people" carving a new path.
Now those of differing opinions would have to be open, honest, and earnest people in order to make any sort of progress. I'm sure that there are people like that on both sides of "the fence" in this situation.
These conversations and debates have been had for years. With many of these progressives getting singled out and black-balled, them meeting together is only understandable. The unknowns: What was the intention of the meeting? Were intentions made before-hand? Is there talk of leaving, or just advice to each brother with how to co-exist and to not lose faith, or walk away from UPCI?
Organization worship doesn't please God. Good men should be able to allow for differing opinions on non-essentials.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrowingPains
These conversations and debates have been had for years. With many of these progressives getting singled out and black-balled, them meeting together is only understandable. The unknowns: What was the intention of the meeting? Were intentions made before-hand? Is there talk of leaving, or just advice to each brother with how to co-exist and to not lose faith, or walk away from UPCI?
Great stuff! This is what I am praying for.
__________________
13 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. 14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. Galatians 5:13-15 (NIV)
These conversations and debates have been had for years. With many of these progressives getting singled out and black-balled, them meeting together is only understandable. The unknowns: What was the intention of the meeting? Were intentions made before-hand? Is there talk of leaving, or just advice to each brother with how to co-exist and to not lose faith, or walk away from UPCI?
I'm not talking about debate per se. Of course, there are those who would only show up to debate and there would be no real dialogue and prayerful discussion. I'm not talking about those people on either side of the issues (and they do exist on both sides)
I'm just saying that even among progressives there are a variety of viewpoints, concerns, and opinions. I'm just of the opinion that it is best to be sure that you include those people to keep discussions balanced. I know this sounds like a paradox, but there is sometimes danger when a bunch of "like-minded" people get together and discuss change.
Just my opinion.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Mooney states that one cannot go to sleep with "snakes in the house". He proclaims that false prophets "are among us."
He asks "Who are these "progressive" theologians who are wanting to lead us away from Pentecost? ... I'm not going with you!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Harvey
Mooney alludes to the actions of some brethren as "cunning","conniving", "crafting" and that God is testing the Church in these last days with "dreamers" and "false prophets".
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrowingPains
False prophet? Who said that? I think he warned about the damage, history and vulnerability of secret meetings. He made his point loud and clear, lest others are asked to participate in such meetings (and I'm sure that was his point).
Read the above.
The more I think about it, the more I remember PM with a stage presence. Like Jeff Arnold, he has this platform personna he uses and part of that is the bravado and stuff in this message.
Question remains ... was it just his platform personna, or does he really believe these men to be thieves, liars, false prophets, etc...?
Like minded people meeting for fellowship and a communion service.
My Lord have mercy, how can you call anything "secret" that was the the subject of several threads on another forum weeks before the meeting.
As much as I love the UPCI it is its nature to rally AGAINST a perceived common enemy,( even when that enemy is a total straw man), ESPECIALLY when the main ones SOUNDING THE ALARM, are either incumbents or currently running for political office.
If the UPCI had spent a tenth the energy preaching what it is for, instead of what it is against (the last few decades especially) it would probably be ten times its present size.
Linear Mode
