Despite what I say about the authenticity of scripture, I honestly get a little nervous when people start saying, "Well, that verse doesn't count." There are a lot of things in the Old Testament that trouble me, and even a few in the New Testament. But I LOVE the writings of Paul. James too. I love the three John books.
I have problems too when we who are supposed to be "people of the Book" start cutting out verses.
I have some "problems" with some stuff in the Old Testament, like "was the flood universal?" and "how did the sun stand still?" I consider myself a fundamentalist (or funnymentalist) and think of the Bible as inspired and infallible. Inspired in that the original writings were "God breathed." Infallible in that what we have today is really God's true message to us and if (notice I said IF) there are any errors they are minor enough to not make eternal differences.
I remember someone telling about a preacher who had a KJV with Roman numerals in it and he was talking about I, II, and III John and the way he said it it came out like "one eye John, two eye John, and three eye John."
I also remember as a teenager in the Baptist church sitting there with another guy I went to school with. He was looking at his KJV (that's all we used back then) and saw where it spoke about "the catholic epistle of Peter" etc. He asked, "How come our Bibles don't say 'the Baptist epistle of Peter?'"
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Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
I have problems too when we who are supposed to be "people of the Book" start cutting out verses.
I have some "problems" with some stuff in the Old Testament, like "was the flood universal?" and "how did the sun stand still?" I consider myself a fundamentalist (or funnymentalist) and think of the Bible as inspired and infallible. Inspired in that the original writings were "God breathed." Infallible in that what we have today is really God's true message to us and if (notice I said IF) there are any errors they are minor enough to not make eternal differences.
I remember someone telling about a preacher who had a KJV with Roman numerals in it and he was talking about I, II, and III John and the way he said it it came out like "one eye John, two eye John, and three eye John."
I also remember as a teenager in the Baptist church sitting there with another guy I went to school with. He was looking at his KJV (that's all we used back then) and saw where it spoke about "the catholic epistle of Peter" etc. He asked, "How come our Bibles don't say 'the Baptist epistle of Peter?'"
So let's play the "If" game here. What if.....IF.....there was a wrong verse that made an eternal difference, but it's the only bible that any of us had....do you think God would let us slide?
By the way, did you see what I said about Matthew 25 and eschatology? I don't want you to think I'm a total idiot. A partial idiot, maybe, but not a total idiot!
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And can I just add....I'm not much of a believer in traditional eschatology. So many things that have been taught through eschatology history ends up being miscalculated and wrong. So I'm not convinced that Matthew 25 is directly talking about the "Second resurrection." ...
We (Christians in general, not just oneness pentecostals) have said some things in our teaching and preaching on prophecy that have really looked silly a few years later. Anybody remember the book "88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will Be in 1988"?
This is what Wikipedia says about it
Edgar C. Whisenant (September 25, 1932 – May 16, 2001), was a former NASA engineer and Bible student who predicted the Rapture would occur in 1988, sometime between Sept. 11 and Sept. 13. He published two books about this: 88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will Be in 1988 and On Borrowed Time. Eventually, 300,000 copies of 88 Reasons were mailed free of charge to ministers across America, and 4.5 million copies were sold in bookstores and elsewhere. Whisenant was quoted as saying "Only if the Bible is in error am I wrong; and I say that to every preacher in town," and "[I]f there were a king in this country and I could gamble with my life, I would stake my life on Rosh Hashana 88." [1]
Whisenant's predictions were taken seriously in some parts of the evangelical Christian community. As the great day approached, regular programming on the Christian Trinity Broadcast Network (TBN) was interrupted to provide special instructions on preparing for the Rapture.
When the predicted Rapture failed to occur, Whisenant followed up with later books with predictions for various dates in 1989, 1993, and 1994. These books did not sell in quantity. Whisenant continued to issue various Rapture predictions through 1997, but gathered little attention.
So let's play the "If" game here. What if.....IF.....there was a wrong verse that made an eternal difference, but it's the only bible that any of us had....do you think God would let us slide?
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I don't know how to answer that.
I'll refer to a great spiritual authority named Joan Baez. I can't quote her exactly but she said something like, "If you're ever faced with the choice of facing either a theoretical lion or a real one, choose the real one because it's not as dangerous."
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
I disagree. Pelathias explained it very well. Inspired? Yes. Infallible? No.
For it to be "Infallible" we are believing that translators are as inspired as the original authors. At that point, which translators were inspired and which weren't? The KJV people? The NIV? The NLT? There's a long list. Did ALL the translators get it right? Some of them? Who's completely inspired and who isn't?
And there are the scribal additions that are almost certainly a part of the bible we have. Were those additions inspired that made their way into the manuscripts?
I accept the bible, as a whole, that we have. My favorite translation is the original New Living Translation. I don't care as much for the Second Edition, but it's getting hard to find the original.
Do you believe that the originals were both inspired and infallible?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Do you believe that the originals were both inspired and infallible?
Come on Timmy, don't nail me to the wall like that! I believe they were inspired. But as soon as I read them, I'll let you know if they were infallible! If they were infallible, there are some questions I need to ask God.
Come on Timmy, don't nail me to the wall like that! I believe they were inspired. But as soon as I read them, I'll let you know if they were infallible! If they were infallible, there are some questions I need to ask God.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I'll start with Leviticus. No, I'll ask about Saul being ordered to kill the women and children. No, I'll ask about all the people Samson killed. No wait, I think I'll ask about Job being the prize in a bet between God and the devil. Oh, I forgot about Abraham being tricked into thinking he had to kill his only son. Well, I'll want to know how the ark carried all those animals and the poop and the food.
I'll start with Leviticus. No, I'll ask about Saul being ordered to kill the women and children. No, I'll ask about all the people Samson killed. No wait, I think I'll ask about Job being the prize in a bet between God and the devil. Oh, I forgot about Abraham being tricked into thinking he had to kill his only son. Well, I'll want to know how the ark carried all those animals and the poop and the food.
Anyone wanna trash me for this post?
Everytime you question whether the Great Flood and Noah's Ark really happened a kitten dies!
Everytime you question whether the Great Flood and Noah's Ark really happened a kitten dies!
That's great! I hate cats!!
Do any of the bible thumpers believe it could have been a local flood and Noah gathered all the animals he could find, and because the locals weren't aware of other parts of the world at that time, recorded the story as being the entire earth?
However, there are theories that the earth was once one solid land piece and the flood caused it to separate and they use artifacts that are from other parts of the world, showing up in places they don't belong, as evidence.
I believe they were inspired. But as soon as I read them, I'll let you know if they were infallible! If they were infallible, there are some questions I need to ask God.
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