Where In Scripture Are We Instructed/Exampled To Pray To Jesus?

[Praxeas]

I have still not seen anyone refute the verses I posted. Clearly the early church called on the name of Jesus in prayer. They prayed TO Him

Originally Posted by tbpew

The only begotten Son was a creature, sent from above, that made a way, provided our access, into the body that God anoints (by abiding there), his Christ.

Are you sure about this? The Son was a creature (a created being) sent from above? Isn't that something along the lines of what Arius preached in the fourth century and that Jehovah's Witnesses preach today?

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Chan

Are you sure about this? The Son was a creature (a created being) sent from above? Isn't that something along the lines of what Arius preached in the fourth century and that Jehovah's Witnesses preach today?

sorry chan,
I chose to not be directly involved with you on this topic.

PLEASE feel free to apply whatever title you feel appropropriate whenever you feel the need to . I have been called just about every title and I have come to understand some folks desparately crave the applicationn of titles...who knows, maybe Chan is one of those folks.

I was reading the scriptures --IMAGINE THAT!
The Son is from ABOVE. You and I are from BELOW.
The Son was sent into this world by his Father.

I get accused of not acknowledging the deity of the Son and you want to make an assoication with my statement and Arius ----pppllllleeeezzzee!

The vessels that the Spirit of God manifested himself within did NOT BECOME GOD. GOD did not BECOME a MAN, he was MANIFESTED in [within] the vessel, the flesh.

Sons proceed forth and come from their fathers.

The one who begets is not the one who is begotten.

The Holy Spirit is very capable of inspiring real word choices that mean something discernable to the reader.



I leave you to your title-application efforts.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I have still not seen anyone refute the verses I posted. Clearly the early church called on the name of Jesus in prayer. They prayed TO Him

I have been out of pocket for the last 2-3 days so I will have to look back and see what you posted.

But... it could be that no one has refuted it because no one sees it as needing refuting. It could be that folks agree with what you posted.

This thread wasn't created to make a point. This thread was created to facilitate discussion.

I probably won't be able to go through the thread today... unless I am able to later this evening... but I will try and find the post you are talking about and reply to it.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Originally Posted by tbpew

sorry chan,
I chose to not be directly involved with you on this topic.

That's your loss.

PLEASE feel free to apply whatever title you feel appropropriate whenever you feel the need to . I have been called just about every title and I have come to understand some folks desparately crave the applicationn of titles...who knows, maybe Chan is one of those folks.

No one has applied any titles to you here.

I was reading the scriptures --IMAGINE THAT!
The Son is from ABOVE. You and I are from BELOW.
The Son was sent into this world by his Father.

No, you were reading INTO the scriptures.

I get accused of not acknowledging the deity of the Son and you want to make an assoication with my statement and Arius ----pppllllleeeezzzee!

You made specific statements that I questioned. Now, if you can't be bothered to just answer the questions instead of making these kinds of stupid accusations...

The vessels that the Spirit of God manifested himself within did NOT BECOME GOD. GOD did not BECOME a MAN, he was MANIFESTED in [within] the vessel, the flesh

Sons proceed forth and come from their fathers.
The one who begets is not the one who is begotten.

This is true. The problem, though is with what you said, "The only begotten Son was a creature, sent from above, that made a way, provided our access, into the body that God anoints (by abiding there), his Christ." This is the Arian heresy. Of course, I didn't even address the rest of what you said. Notice you said the following things about the only begotten Son (taking into consideration your chosen punctuation):

1. Was a creature.
2. Was sent from above.
3. Made a way.
4. Provided our access.
5. Was into the body that God anoints (by God abiding there).
6. The Christ was His.

Now, before you say that this isn't what you said (or, at the very least, what you meant), I can only go by what you actually write.

The Holy Spirit is very capable of inspiring real word choices that mean something discernable to the reader.

Maybe you should have sought the Holy Spirit's help in your post.

I leave you to your title-application efforts.

No one has applied any titles to you.

[tbpew]

there are only so many ways you can have your Son of God;
1. some kind of mode that God is temporairly appearing in
2. one of three special unoriginated attributes/things/persons (whatever)
3. A son who proceeded forth, and came from, an act of the will his father
4. (the latest release from OP bible schools) an added human nature that God added to his own singular person.

The words FATHER and SON mean nothing without the relative position that undergirds them. They are rendered completely void and without meaning to the hearer. They become nothing more than jargon in some philosopher's mystical word jumble.

Arius espouses a non-eternal deity, that is, the son deity was not unoriginate. I make no claim of any sort of plurality of deity.

A father begat a Son within creation. The Son was born of a woman, but the Son is NOT from below, but rather is from above. \
So plain are the words of the Son of God:
Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world
The Son of God testified that he has a God.
The Son of God testified that he has been given all power.
The Son of God testified that he speaks the words of the one who sent him into the world.

These, and so many other witnesses, speak of the obedience of the vessel to yield his will to Spirit that was given to him without measure. The Body of God's anointing is the vessel that has provided Emmanuel, God with us. A creature within creature, an abode for God made without any man's hands.

PS. From the viewing angle of the genuine keepers of the pureness of the trinity philosophy at the counsel of Nicea, ARIUS would of course be a heretic because of the lack of an "unoriginate" pertaining the Son.

Originally Posted by tbpew

there are only so many ways you can have your Son of God;
1. some kind of mode that God is temporairly appearing in
2. one of three special unoriginated attributes/things/persons (whatever)
3. A son who proceeded forth, and came from, an act of the will his father
4. (the latest release from OP bible schools) an added human nature that God added to his own singular person.

5. Something begotten by God.

The words FATHER and SON mean nothing without the relative position that undergirds them. They are rendered completely void and without meaning to the hearer. They become nothing more than jargon in some philosopher's mystical word jumble.

Yes, God is "the Father" because He has fathered. The Son is the Son because He was fathered.

Arius espouses a non-eternal deity, that is, the son deity was not unoriginate. I make no claim of any sort of plurality of deity.

Arius said He was a created being and you said He was a creature (which means a created being).

A father begat a Son within creation. The Son was born of a woman, but the Son is NOT from below, but rather is from above. \
So plain are the words of the Son of God:
Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world
The Son of God testified that he has a God.
The Son of God testified that he has been given all power.
The Son of God testified that he speaks the words of the one who sent him into the world.

Agreed.

These, and so many other witnesses, speak of the obedience of the vessel to yield his will to Spirit that was given to him without measure.

Agreed.

The Body of God's anointing is the vessel that has provided Emmanuel, God with us.

Mary?

A creature within creature, an abode for God made without any man's hands.

I'm having a real problem with you referring to Jesus as a creature (a created being).

PS. From the viewing angle of the genuine keepers of the pureness of the trinity philosophy at the counsel of Nicea, ARIUS would of course be a heretic because of the lack of an "unoriginate" pertaining the Son.

Was it that or was it that Arius denied that Jesus' divinity was homoousion (the same substance, of one essence) with the Father and, instead, insisted that Jesus was homoiousion (of similar substance, another essence)?

[tbpew]

The body of (pertaining to) God's anointing is his [God's] Christ (not Mary).

The Christ has one member who is the head.
The Christ has many members who are fitly joined together with every joint supplying to the edifying of the body.

The CHRIST is the handiwork of God.
The CHRIST is God's first and last creative work, the alpha and omega.

The Christ is the CHRIST by definition; because of being anointed. The Spirit making his abode within the body (the vessel) anoints the vessel. The tabernacle is not a building but rather a body [Heb 9]. The tabernacle is anointed (Christ) because God dwells there.


Go and tell David my servant, Thus saith the LORD, Thou shalt not build me an house to dwell in:
For I have not dwelt in an house since the day that I brought up Israel unto this day; but have gone from tent to tent, and from [one] tabernacle [to another].
Wheresoever I have walked with all Israel, spake I a word to any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people, saying, Why have ye not built me an house of cedars?

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God. [Rev 21:3 ]

God's creative (in creation) plan; us dwelling with him as our peaceful habitation, his dwelling with us, the all in all, the CHRIST.

Originally Posted by tbpew

The body of (pertaining to) God's anointing is his [God's] Christ (not Mary).

God's body was "The Body of God's anointing is the vessel that has provided Emmanuel, God with us"? Does God even have a body or is He Spirit (as Jesus tells us in John 4)?

The Christ has one member who is the head.

I thought Jesus was the head of the body.

The Christ has many members who are fitly joined together with every joint supplying to the edifying of the body.

It sounds like you're saying the Church is Christ.

The CHRIST is the handiwork of God.

This sounds like Arian or Mormon doctrine.

The CHRIST is God's first and last creative work, the alpha and omega.

So, you really are an Arian. You believe Jesus is a created being!

The Christ is the CHRIST by definition; because of being anointed.

And your point is?

The Spirit making his abode within the body (the vessel) anoints the vessel.

Yes, and...

The tabernacle is not a building but rather a body [Heb 9]. The tabernacle is anointed (Christ) because God dwells there.

But which body is being referred to there? The physical body we know as Jesus the Christ or a figurative body we call the Church? If the latter, you seem to be saying the Church is Christ.

Go and tell David my servant, Thus saith the LORD, Thou shalt not build me an house to dwell in:
For I have not dwelt in an house since the day that I brought up Israel unto this day; but have gone from tent to tent, and from [one] tabernacle [to another].
Wheresoever I have walked with all Israel, spake I a word to any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people, saying, Why have ye not built me an house of cedars?

And yet God allowed Solomon to build Him a magnificent temple!

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God. [Rev 21:3 ]

That tabernacle of God being the new Jerusalem.

God's creative (in creation) plan; us dwelling with him as our peaceful habitation, his dwelling with us, the all in all, the CHRIST.

God's creative plan was for us to dwell with Him as our peaceful habitation, His dwelling with us (who are the all in all and the Christ)?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by tbpew

there are only so many ways you can have your Son of God;
1. some kind of mode that God is temporairly appearing in
2. one of three special unoriginated attributes/things/persons (whatever)
3. A son who proceeded forth, and came from, an act of the will his father
4. (the latest release from OP bible schools) an added human nature that God added to his own singular person.

Uh, number 4 is not a new thing except for the part about the 1 person of God. OPs have always believed in the incarnation. Unfortunately and partly because of bad teaching by some pastors and I believe a misunderstanding of what others like David Bernard were saying, some OPs sound like they don't believe this.

Also the Son is not merely that added human nature. The Son is GOD HIMSELF with the human nature and divine nature ontologcally united.

Number 1? Not temporary. And Number 1 and 4 are basically the same. The son IS a mode or form of God or manifestation. That simply means it is another way God Himself has come to exist or be revealed to man.