False Doctrine Part 1 - How To Stop Sinning

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Western ideas of Free Will are not even close to what "free will' would have meant to the likes of Peter, Paul and James in the East. We have such a cultural context blocking our perception.

We say God is in control, but buy into the idea that every action I create can shape the destiny of the world (and other power slogans similar). We have a hard time understanding and embracing that God works through our choices, not in spite of them.

And yes, Pelagianism went much too far... into an unhealthy focus on the individual. While I'm not a "Calvinist," I don't think they are too far off. In the last year, I've learned much from my Calvinist brothers. But that's just my opinion.

There are different aspects or views to what many call Pelagianism. I would somewhat called a semipelagian. It's about both God and man not one or the other. I believe in synergistic salvation from a monegeristic source.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

There are different aspects or views to what many call Pelagianism. I would somewhat called a semipelagian. It's about both God and man not one or the other. I believe in synergistic salvation from a monegeristic source.

I lean more toward it being more about God... specifically, what Christ did. But I hear ya...

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Socialite

I lean more toward it being more about God... specifically, what Christ did. But I hear ya...

Of course it's about God but it is also about choice. Without either component you don't have redemption.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Of course it's about God but it is also about choice. Without either component you don't have redemption.

Choice is in there.... somewhere.

But the more I read the Story... from Genesis on through... it just seems that God is the great initiator. He's done all the work. Our role is so small that it almost feels awkward to say we have one. We stare at reality, we realize our brokenness and see his Grace. It's extremely difficult to decide otherwise. This is also how strongly I feel about the Story and want to share it (of course, completely aware that only the Spirit can draw people).

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Choice is in there.... somewhere.

But the more I read the Story... from Genesis on through... it just seems that God is the great initiator. He's done all the work. Our role is so small that it almost feels awkward to say we have one. We stare at reality, we realize our brokenness and see his Grace. It's extremely difficult to decide otherwise. This is also how strongly I feel about the Story and want to share it (of course, completely aware that only the Spirit can draw people).

Yes... He has done the work to destroy the old covenant and bring about a new in which his law is written upon the heart and new life is seen. That is God' grace. Not negation of his law. We either choose his love or the love we see in the world. Both compel! We simply choose short term or long term and it's result. God judges your life in whole by everywork good or bad. In the end YOU are faithful or not to his call.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Yes... He has done the work to destroy the old covenant and bring about a new in which his law is written upon the heart and new life is seen. That is God' grace. Not negation of his law. We either choose his love or the love we see in the world. Both compel! We simply choose short term or long term and it's result. God judges your life in whole by everywork good or bad. In the end YOU are faithful or not to his call.

God judges me by the cross and the work of the Savior King, else it was in vain too.

We must answer for all that we do -- good deeds and bad deeds. But our life, as imperfect as it can often be, is complete and perfect in Christ.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Socialite

God judges me by the cross and the work of the Savior King, else it was in vain too.

We must answer for all that we do -- good deeds and bad deeds. But our life, as imperfect as it can often be, is complete and perfect in Christ.

God judges by the cross IF you are his friend and obey his commandments! John 15:4-15

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

God judges by the cross IF you are his friend and obey his commandments! John 15:4-15

He loves me and calls me friend, even when I disobey and let Him down.

We are not anxious or insecure about his perseverant, final, and redemptive work on the cross. We aren't looking over our backs anxiously wondering if our sin today separated us from the love of God.

My sin is not greater than Christ's grace and work. Having been united to Christ, the Spirit of adoption can come to me no more with a Spirit of bondage and fear because in Christ I no longer stand in my own sins, merit or performances, but are clothed in His righteousness. Because of Jesus I am already on the other side of justice and it can no longer have me (Rom 8:1). No condemnation for me in Christ for the full justice of God has been satisfied. Christ's once for all sacrifice means there is no longer necessary a sacrifice for sin year after year (as in Leviticus) but now His atoning work is sufficient for all time for you before God. I can neither attain, nor maintain, my right standing before God. I never did and I never will, for sin cannot disolve the covenant which God has graciously granted to me in Christ. Now as always, my only hope is Jesus Christ. When God justified me, He did not then, and does not now, look at me but rather, at the covenant He made with me in Christ. Consider, when God made the covenant of grace with Abraham, God made Abraham sleep and God himself walked through the divided animals and so promised to take on Himself the punishment if Abraham did not fulfill his side of the covenant. And so it was, the seed of Abraham (that's us) all failed to keep the covenant and so God Himself came in the flesh to fully bear up the punishment we justly deserve for not keeping our side of it. Jesus Kept it for us. He did for us what we could not do for ourselves, from our side.

It was not our obedience, repentance or faith that caused God to justify us because none of these things can pay for sin - not now, not ever. Only Christ alone can save and pay for sin. And He did. Yours and my safety is based, therefore, on Christ's merit, not on what we do, otherwise we are looking in ourselves for confidence before God, rather than Christ. No one, not one of us would have confidence if we had only to look to ourselves. So we look to Christ. Herein is the gospel.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Socialite

He loves me and calls me friend, even when I disobey and let Him down.

We are not anxious or insecure about his perseverant, final, and redemptive work on the cross. We aren't looking over our backs anxiously wondering if our sin today separated us from the love of God.

My sin is not greater than Christ's grace and work. Having been united to Christ, the Spirit of adoption can come to me no more with a Spirit of bondage and fear because in Christ I no longer stand in my own sins, merit or performances, but are clothed in His righteousness. Because of Jesus I am already on the other side of justice and it can no longer have me (Rom 8:1). No condemnation for me in Christ for the full justice of God has been satisfied. Christ's once for all sacrifice means there is no longer necessary a sacrifice for sin year after year (as in Leviticus) but now His atoning work is sufficient for all time for you before God. I can neither attain, nor maintain, my right standing before God. I never did and I never will, for sin cannot disolve the covenant which God has graciously granted to me in Christ. Now as always, my only hope is Jesus Christ. When God justified me, He did not then, and does not now, look at me but rather, at the covenant He made with me in Christ. Consider, when God made the covenant of grace with Abraham, God made Abraham sleep and God himself walked through the divided animals and so promised to take on Himself the punishment if Abraham did not fulfill his side of the covenant. And so it was, the seed of Abraham (that's us) all failed to keep the covenant and so God Himself came in the flesh to fully bear up the punishment we justly deserve for not keeping our side of it. Jesus Kept it for us. He did for us what we could not do for ourselves, from our side.

It was not our obedience, repentance or faith that caused God to justify us because none of these things can pay for sin - not now, not ever. Only Christ alone can save and pay for sin. And He did. Yours and my safety is based, therefore, on Christ's merit, not on what we do, otherwise we are looking in ourselves for confidence before God, rather than Christ. No one, not one of us would have confidence if we had only to look to ourselves. So we look to Christ. Herein is the gospel.

so basically OSAS. Since I never chose it I cannot lose it. I also noticed you ignored Christ direct Words. So your first sentence is heresy!

Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Joh 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Joh 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Joh 15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

[Socialite]

And if one thinks they can lose their salvation because of some sin they committed, they are essentially saying that what Christ did for them is insufficient.

They are looking to Christ PLUS their keeping of the Law. It misses the whole point of the gospel which is that Christ saves from first to last. The passage that warns the Hebrews against falling away is warning them against one thing: abandoning trust in Christ alone by going back to now worthless and obsolete things, such as trusting in the temple sacrifice and the Law in order to be justified. The warnings in Henrews are given to those in the covenant community that they would not be tempted to turn from trusting Jesus alone (who is God over all) for some lesser or meaningless ritual act or law keeping that supposedly now can curry God's favor. Trusting in anything except Christ alone, who is the light that scatters all shadows, is said to be tantamount to "trampling under foot the Son of God", that is, believing that His once of all sacrifice is insufficient in itself to save. If something in place of, or in addition to, Jesus is trusted in it is no different than a denial of Him. So in context, the persons who go back by trading in Christ for the now-empty ritual of the temple (that itself was meant to point to the fulfillment in Christ), are then re-crucifying the Son to their shame. But unfortunately, Hebrews 6:4-8 is often read in isolation apart from this context.

As far as John 15 -- He has most certainly called us to obedience. This does not mean the salvation spotlight turns to our performance. Rather, He wants us to live as we are. (I will add that John 15 is not a contradiction to the rest of the NT)