Evolution and the Bible. Confirm or contradict?

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by meBNme

Sure, like just about every "truth" put out by the world, there are a lot of lies involved, but there are also bits of truth as well, some theories have more truth than others.

What would you say about the scriptures that say that life formed from the oceans? Just like some theories of evolution claim.

What about the Bibles account of the flood, and sciences findings that indicate a major earth wide flood as well?

Just because there are lies in most (if not all) of those theories, does not mean there is no truth there.

It wouldn't say it is mostly lies with some truth, rather mostly truth with some misinterpretation. Theories and measurements are always being refined but there are quite a few things which to which there is near certainty. Relativity for one. While still technically a theory, it has been proven time and time again accurate to many decimal places. So accurate in fact that a distance stars "wobble" in meters per minutes can actually be measured via dopaler effect. This is how most planets are discovered.

On a completely different note, I always like to throw this little factoid out. To a died in the wool young earther, it is usually greeted by a comment about those "lying humanistic scientists", an extreme appeal to the "appearance of age" argument, or cold silence. But I like to ask about several MASSIVE impact craters which are scattered around this planet. These are craters many miles in diameter which represent an EXTINCTION level impact -each and every one. When in a 6000 year time frame could these have possible taken place?
I know young earthers use the "flood" to account for anything and everything (including large lakes of oil MILES underground) but I don't even see how a world wide flood could create perfect impact craters......

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by stasis

The theory/religion of evolution is backed up by a very long series of frauds, many of which were publicly exposed (such as the fake fetal development woodcuts), but most continue to be promoted by educators.

Sorry, stasis; while human history is filled with "frauds," most of the frauds perpetrated today are by "Creationists." Your statement that "most educators" continue to promote the various scientific frauds is evidence that you simply haven't spoken to an educator.

Originally Posted by stasis

Visit evolution-facts.org and read the 'evolution handbook' online.

If one believes the bible is true, then one cannot believe evolution has presence in scripture after reading Evolution Handbook, because evolution is smoke and mirrors; it is a lie. I'm not even talking against evolution with scripture, I am talking about physics. Stellar Evolution and theories such as 'big bang' are impossible according to basic laws such as 'conservation of angular momentum'. The evolution of life from 'primordial soup' is based on equations such as 'dirt + water + time = increasingly complex life forms'. Of course, evolutionists have attempted to create life in certain lab environments simulating a micro 'promordial soup', and were even reported to succeed in one case. However, shortly after, the 'success' was exposed as a lie and a fraud.

Care to offer a single example of any of this? I've underlined some of your more... uhm (let's be nice, he's doing the name calling here...) interesting statements. You can't give us one example can you? So who should I conclude is "lying?"

Some homework for you: a guy who used to work across the street from my old church office won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1989, for his work in "catalyzing RNA." He was searching for a way to deliver cancer fighting drugs into the cells themself. He tried to find the right virus to use to "infect" the cancer cells but nothing worked. So he made several different types of viruses himself.

***** Added this note:
Now there is some debate as to whether or not a virus is truly "a living organism." Since biological evolution did, and still does occur we find a lot of "things" like viruses and prions that exist in a sort of hazy "not quite living" and yet "too complex and self replicating to be non-organic" realm. These are the "transistionals" that you left out of your dirt equation above. *****

Thomas Cech is an example of someone who synthesized a "living thing" and he did so back in the early 1980's. Yet he escapes the attention of your gag writers every time. Drop the propaganda and pick up some quality textbooks. You'll be thankful you did.

Originally Posted by stasis

The ideas of Darwin (who wasn't even a scientist), and other early evolutionists (armchair 'scientists', aka philosophers), were promoted by the British Aristocracy and Royalty who, like other Royal familes, had already believed in a kind of false evolution religion for centuries (the superior blueblood stock, bred to rule over the 'low class morons'),

uhm... the best way for us to overcome this type of bigotry is for our "morons" to get educated and catch up. Is there a Community College in your town?

Originally Posted by stasis

[...] who seem to share a common hobby of breeding horses, etc. For them it is a religion. They were very excited with the ideas of Darwin and his friends.

No, no they weren't Again, why don't you read up on the issue. I would feel better knowing that you're ready to engage the subject rather than rattling off the YEC boiler plate like some zombie.

Originally Posted by stasis

I highly recommend watching the following documentary on Google Video. It will totally shock you.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...29053600562261

And speaking of FRAUD - you post a link to a video by Alex Jones and expect to be taken seriously??? Alex Jones is the conspiracy kook who says the U.S. governement flew remote controlled planes into the WTC on 9/11. Seriously dude, loose the wackos and visit your local library. You crack me up there, little buddy ; but Alex Jones is loathsome.

[scotty]

1st Timothy 6:20-21 "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen."

If the debate in this thread were solved today, I can't help but wonder how many more souls will come to God because of the solution?

Here is a better one: How many lost souls could have been witnessed to in the time spent posting, reading and researching evolution?

Where would we be today had the Apostles, after the day of Pentecost, decided to sit in the temples and debate with the Pharisees about issues not relevant to the Love of Christ instead of spreading the Gospel?

How many of your lost friends and nieghbors will turn to you on judgement day and ask: Could you not find time for me?

Just a thought.......................

May the Love of Christ guide us all. Amen.

[RandyWayne]

Ahhhh, the old "It's wrong because you could be doing better things with your time" argument. Fits right up there with the "appearance of age" being discussed from time to time here!

Question: What if you belonged to a church that you really felt had nearly all the truth. Truth that you wished to tell everyone about! Now, what if this church also believed in Santa Clause and taught he was a real figure who literally traveled to the home of every good little girl and boy on Christmas eve dropping off presents? Would you not feel it was necessary to refute this? Would you not feel that it was creating a stumbling block to those who would otherwise listen to the 'real' truth?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by scotty

1st Timothy 6:20-21 "O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen."

If the debate in this thread were solved today, I can't help but wonder how many more souls will come to God because of the solution?

Here is a better one: How many lost souls could have been witnessed to in the time spent posting, reading and researching evolution?

Where would we be today had the Apostles, after the day of Pentecost, decided to sit in the temples and debate with the Pharisees about issues not relevant to the Love of Christ instead of spreading the Gospel?

How many of your lost friends and nieghbors will turn to you on judgement day and ask: Could you not find time for me?

Just a thought.......................

May the Love of Christ guide us all. Amen.

And who is going to turn toward you at the judgment because of your posting and the "waste of time it represents?"

Basically, what I hear you say is that you don't want to discuss this issue. Fine, but then why the post? Why read other posts and then follow up at all? I suspect that you are interested.

My interest in the issue began many years ago when I wanted to have more confidence in my preaching about the subject. I began as a Young Earth Creationist and "evolved" into a full fledged biological evolutionist. As I was undergoing this learning process and education I witnessed some real horrors committed by my more "believing brethren" and religion in general stank pretty badly for a while.

Then I found God all over again. I found Him through the writings of Stephen J. Gould, Richard Dawkins, Steven Pinker and a host of others but then finally, Christian De Duve. The study of biological evolution saved my faith. Those with the "approach" that you describe above turned me off entirely. I saw through their fraud, deceit and finally their moral depravity. Their "holiness" and fundamentalist style "Bible believing" didn't make them truly holy.

Stephen J. Gould died a few years ago. In "judgment" who will he turn to and blame for his end? What are you doing to reach your local college and university professors? To them, your style of religion represents cruelty, oppression and the stake. What are you going to tell them in judgment? And what of your children? To compete in this society they need to be even more educated then their parents. When their education causes them to lose faith and they turn to you at the judgment, what will you tell them, that you didn't have time to keep up with education in general? That won't save them then, it will be too late. You've got to be involved today.

How about if we find ways to infuse our modern culture with some hope? How about if we show them that, in the words of De Duve, there is an important "meaningfulness" to the wonderful life that we see all around us?

[scotty]

Bro. Wayne,
First off I never said anything or anybody was "wrong" about anything. I merely questioned the use of time.

As to your question, too many ;"what ifs". If I belonged to a church that believed in any untruths I would not be there long. Here is the funny thing, I have been a member of two churches over the past 30 years and not once have I ever heard a sermon dealing with creationism or evolution. What that tells me is those issues are irrelevant to the big picture, the calling we have as children of God, our walk in the light and Love of Christ and our responsibility as believers to reach the lost.

God bless you ,

[scotty]

Those with the "approach" that you describe above turned me off entirely. I saw through their fraud, deceit and finally their moral depravity. Their "holiness" and fundamentalist style "Bible believing" didn't make them truly holy.

My "approach"? Bro. My approach is of the Love and salvation of Christ, how do you get such words as fraud, deceit and moral depravity from the Love of Christ. Jesus wants us to Love one another and reach out to others in the Love of Him that shines through us. Our time here is awful short to spend arguing about the beginning of time when it's the present and the future that matters. Am I the only one that notices there is not a single reference to scripture on this page? Just qoutes of scholars? If I can reach the students then the professors will be mute in there minds. You are probably right, I do not belong here on this thread, I am new to this forum so I was simply "looking around". I hope you know I meant no disrespect to any of you or your teachings, just don't guess I understand the point or end goal. May God bless you all and your work.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by scotty

Those with the "approach" that you describe above turned me off entirely. I saw through their fraud, deceit and finally their moral depravity. Their "holiness" and fundamentalist style "Bible believing" didn't make them truly holy.

My "approach"? Bro. My approach is of the Love and salvation of Christ, how do you get such words as fraud, deceit and moral depravity from the Love of Christ. Jesus wants us to Love one another and reach out to others in the Love of Him that shines through us. Our time here is awful short to spend arguing about the beginning of time when it's the present and the future that matters. Am I the only one that notices there is not a single reference to scripture on this page? Just qoutes of scholars? If I can reach the students then the professors will be mute in there minds. You are probably right, I do not belong here on this thread, I am new to this forum so I was simply "looking around". I hope you know I meant no disrespect to any of you or your teachings, just don't guess I understand the point or end goal. May God bless you all and your work.

Thanks, for your thoughts. You didn't answer my questions, however.

I don't find any "quotes from scholars" replacing the Scriptures, as you describe. I think there's something thorny about the issue that's bothering you, something other than the "time" concerns that you mentioned.

This discussion brings to light one of my own concerns with religion. It seems that the less intelligent you are, and the less time you spend thinking about things, the more likely you are to get saved and stay saved...

Doesn't it say something about things when being smarter, more intelligent, more street-wise, etc. actually decreases your chances of being saved?

I'm not saying that I am smart, I am just saying that if I was mentally handicapped, I probably would never have questioned certain things and would probably take things more at face value than I do now, therefore would be more likely to be saved.

[scotty]

I think there's something thorny about the issue that's bothering you, something other than the "time" concerns that you mentioned.

Uuuhhhhh...... Nope , that's pretty much it. Like I said I don't get into things I feel are irrelevant.

NOTE: I feel, meaning thats just my opinion. I'm sure there are things I study up on that you don't feel are relevant. So we agree to disagree.

Actually rereading that, the point wasn't about the time it is about what we preach, I just think we can do more of God's work spreading His Love than trying to debunk a theory of the past. That's all. Look it's the power of God that gives us insight to the scriptures, the bible says the spirit will guide us in what to say and not to worry ourselves with what to say.

I thought I did answer your questions, which one did I miss?