The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Whew, got some catching up to do here! So many posts.

Anything, that occurred before the cross is one bracket of its own, including law, promise and Adam and Eve. And the HEART is the important factor. I already said this, which should cover all issues of this topic, but when God sees the heart that has the kind of faith THAT WORKS, it is the faith that works that saves.

It's the same situation as in the case of the hypothetical picture of someone who repented and is intent on getting baptized in obedience and dies on the way to church. Their heart had faith that works. That heart's faith was going to do something. That one is saved. Same with the thief. Jesus saw the heart of that man that had faith that works. He was saved.

That's great. I hope you can understand the consternation of some of us who have been in this thread from the beginning. Only now has the discussion been turned around and pointed back at Jesus Christ and His gift of salvation. There was a knee jerk reaction early on that demanded that this focus be removed from Christ and be placed upon our own efforts.

Originally Posted by mfblume

It's so simple, but like Mizpeh said, so many here are missing the obvious issue that faith saves, but it is faith that works that saves, and not any other kind of faith.

What other kind of "faith" could anyone possibly have in Jesus Christ but faith that saves?

Originally Posted by mfblume

No I am not. Baptism is part of salvation. I made that clear.

But you said that "the guy who died in the car" was saved because of his faith. Baptism was not essential for him.

pelathais' earlier post:

They were all saved by faith in the coming Messiah. We today are saved by faith in what that Messiah did approximately 2,000 years ago.

Right?

Originally Posted by mfblume

No, I said that anything required to be DONE before the cross was a shadow of repentance and baptism that is REQUIRED AFTER THE CROSS. And these are not done by way of works without faith, but rather faith that works.

We are NOT saved by faith in what the Messiah did approximately 2,000 years ago?

woo-boy! Gotta start all over again:

Jesus saves.

Any arguments?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Which is an excellent point. I'm glad to see you coming around to the idea that Jesus saves. If salvation came about through our own effort than it would no longer be a gift. Romans 5:19

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

you need help as you lack comprehension

I was "mistaken" in my belief that you "were coming around to the idea that Jesus saves?"

You do not believe that salvation is a gift, then?

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

oh so TURNING FROM SIN/REPENTING is not necessary? ROFL!

You seriously need some help with your rolling problem.

You can't read. Or you don't want to. Mike said he had to "Let go of certain sins" in order to be saved/speak in tongues. And I'm saying that whether or not one stops sinning doesn't get them saved.

I've also seen many who "spoke in tongues" and were getting drunk and/or committing fornication before the day was done. So it seems some speak in tongues without "letting go of sin". So what's the argument now?

I'm theologically and spiritually offended by the notion that one can eliminate/let go/walk away from sin and improve their position with God.

[KWSS1976]

Futher more I have heard people speak in tongues and then turn around and cheat on there spouse....so whats up now......

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Further more I have heard people speak in tongues and then turn around and cheat on their spouse....so whats up now......

Sadly, the man who replaced me in the ministry because I was "hindering revival" sits in a prison cell today. And, I'm the "apostate?"

Nice.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Sadly, the man who replaced me in the ministry because I was "hindering revival" sits in a prison cell today. And, I'm the "apostate?"

Nice.

Yeah, but did he speak in tongues?? That makes all the difference, Pel!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Yeah, but did he speak in tongues?? That makes all the difference, Pel!

More than I, from what I heard for a time. Nobody brings him up anymore for some reason.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by pelathais

More than I, from what I heard for a time. Nobody brings him up anymore for some reason.

Uncomfortable subject, I guess. Personally, I don't see how "tongues" can be connected to behavior, at any point, whether it be initially or later on.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Futher more I have heard people speak in tongues and then turn around and cheat on there spouse....so whats up now......

hmmm then I question they had... maybe they are one of that had someone do the hallelujah tongue twist game... no matter the point still remains that reception is not by blind faith.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by pelathais

That's great. I hope you can understand the consternation of some of us who have been in this thread from the beginning. Only now has the discussion been turned around and pointed back at Jesus Christ and His gift of salvation. There was a knee jerk reaction early on that demanded that this focus be removed from Christ and be placed upon our own efforts.

What other kind of "faith" could anyone possibly have in Jesus Christ but faith that saves?

But you said that "the guy who died in the car" was saved because of his faith. Baptism was not essential for him.


We are NOT saved by faith in what the Messiah did approximately 2,000 years ago?

woo-boy! Gotta start all over again:

Jesus saves.

Any arguments?

Yes he does but salvation comes with requirements!