Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Father?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

None of the things you've listed have a distinct "self", so I don't believe they compare.

You are missing the point once again. Grammar. Language. Pronouns. Many non persons in the bible are called He or Her in Greek grammar

I have not spoken a prophecy. But if I do, it will be as the Spirit bids me, as it did the with the oracles of God

So?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Humans are human persons. If Christ doesn't have a distinct human personhood, He's not an authentic human being.

Humans are Persons that have a human nature

He is a Person with a Human nature. It's NATURE that makes us Persons whatever kind of being we are

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

If the Son is the Father, when praying to the Father, is He not praying to the Son, i.e. Himself?

Once again, Father and Son are distinct. Are you paying attention to ANYTHING that has been said up until now?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

You're saying that the same "self" (person) that prayed to the Father is the same "self" (person) as the Father. That means He'd speak with a singular sense of "self". "Hello, me. I'd like to ask me to glorify me with my own self." "I and me are one." lol

It doesn't work that way. If a "mode" (as you call it) has a distinct sense of self, that "mode" has a distinct "personhood" and is therefore a distinct "person" with a distinct line of thought, will, and ability to reason. And that's what we see in the Son.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes it does work that way and no he would not do that. Why? As explained He existed as both Father AND Son at the same time with two distinct natures

He really was God as the Father and God incarnate as the Son (Deity united with Humanity)

BTW, I don't care for analogies but if you've ever followed science fiction and Quantum Mechanics, maybe you can see how one Person can be in two distinct dimensions or time frames and communication with each other. Same Person

In Oneness the Father is God existing transcendentally and the Son Temporally

One is outside of all constraints and the other is a part of Creation

One functions through the Divine will and the other through the Human will.

Yes ontologically it is possible and YES grammatically it's demanded. When Jesus prays he does not pray to the Son. He prays to the Father in heaven. He has a human will and human brain and a humanized perception of everything so why wouldn't he have a perception of the Father as if the Father were someone other than himself?

Let me approach it this way. Your idea of Person is one way but Person can also include the idea of being, the WHOLE Person

And so while they are the same self conscious individual they are not necessarily the same Being (referring to essence)

So the Father is the Divine Being and the Son with the Human nature is functionally a Human being

There is One Person (Your idea) that Personifies both natures and both "Beings"

The word Being simply means "exist" and Nature explains how we persons exist.

God (Person) exists as both God and Man

Well?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Why do you require a distinct self to be a distinct person?

Because there are serious implications of multiple self's residing in one person. Psychosis.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Because there are serious implications of multiple self's residing in one person. Psychosis.

That doesn't answer his question

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Because there are serious implications of multiple self's residing in one person. Psychosis.

Again. Throwing humans limitations on God. It's really your dilemma brother. You are restricting God with human limitations. As if God would have psychosis in doing what we could only do as mental sickness. Seriously?

[Esaias]

The bible affirms Jesus is the son of God. It affirms Jesus is God. It affirms he is the Father, is in the Father, and is indwelt by the Father. It affirms he was begotten by the Father, by the Holy Ghost, and it affirms he is the Holy Ghost. He is the WORD that was both with God and was God and became flesh. He is the one sent and yet the one who sends.
He is the anointed one and yet the one who anoints.
He is the baptiser with the spirit and also the in which we are baptised.
He is priest who offers atonement and yet he is also the atonement that is offered.
He intercedes for us and yet he is the one to whom and yet through whom intercessions are made.
I could go on.
We don't have to understand it all. But we do have accept the dogmatic authority of the statements of scripture.
Great without controversy is the MYSTERY.
We inevitably err when we try to fit God into a post or extra biblical metaphysics (ie human wisdom).

[mfblume]

Aquila, please use your restrictive personal grammatical terms with this example, and tell us the following presents two persons:

Luk 12:19 KJV And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.

"THOU" is a second person pronoun. So, in this case is the soul a second person to the person who possess that soul, which is his own soul?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Aquila, please use your restrictive personal grammatical terms with this example, and tell us the following presents two persons:

Luk 12:19 KJV And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.

"THOU" is a second person pronoun. So, in this case is the soul a second person to the person who possess that soul, which is his own soul?

You can't compare metaphoric reference to interpersonal relationship and/or conversation.