I have no problem with the fact that Jesus turned the water into wine. I personally don't think that if a person has a glass of wine that they are going to hell, but wine is a mocker and there is nothing beneficial in it.
So my question comes to, "Why?" It's carnal, it has no nutritional value, your liver was not designed to process alcohol. My wife and I used to go get some wine once in awhile. We never got drunk or drank in excess. It was not an every night or even an every weekend event. But this I know, every time I would have it I was convicted in my Spirit. I knew that God was not pleased with me having it.
Furthermore, in our society where alcohol is widely abused why do we even want the appearance of evil, why would we want to possibly be a stumbling block for another, and why would we even want to take a chance that the 1 in whatever possibility that we could come to a place to abuse it?
God has called us to be set apart, to live clean, to be an example. Of course I would take this same position with food. Too many in the church are condemning people of their sins while they are obese? Gluttony is just as much a sin as adultery.
I have no problem with the fact that Jesus turned the water into wine. I personally don't think that if a person has a glass of wine that they are going to hell, but wine is a mocker and there is nothing beneficial in it.
So my question comes to, "Why?" It's carnal, it has no nutritional value, your liver was not designed to process alcohol. My wife and I used to go get some wine once in awhile. We never got drunk or drank in excess. It was not an every night or even an every weekend event. But this I know, every time I would have it I was convicted in my Spirit. I knew that God was not pleased with me having it.
Furthermore, in our society where alcohol is widely abused why do we even want the appearance of evil, why would we want to possibly be a stumbling block for another, and why would we even want to take a chance that the 1 in whatever possibility that we could come to a place to abuse it?
God has called us to be set apart, to live clean, to be an example. Of course I would take this same position with food. Too many in the church are condemning people of their sins while they are obese? Gluttony is just as much a sin as adultery.
Oh please. Let's stop with that 'all fat people are gluttons' mentality.
I'm sure you are just the picture of perfect health, am I right?
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You have a unique way of twisting words. I did not say that all fat people are gluttons. There are some medical conditions that cause this, but by and far if you are overweight it is because you eat wrong and/or too much, which is a deeper problem that is typically being masked.
As for me, no. I am not a picture of perfect health, nor am I at the right weight level. I am about 15-20 pounds overweight and it is because I do not control that carnal side of me that is to be crucified. If I would live in moderation as the Bible describes I would be at the right weight level.
The thing I think is the most profound is how we think that the things God has said doesn't mean anything. We live in a society that does not want to take responsibility and because of that we think that this thing called the Bible is just a guideline that we can pick and choose over, making excuses for everyone.
You have a unique way of twisting words. I did not say that all fat people are gluttons. There are some medical conditions that cause this, but by and far if you are overweight it is because you eat wrong and/or too much, which is a deeper problem that is typically being masked.
YOU are the one who tied in obesity to gluttony, not me. You didn't say SOME obese people, did you? Are you the judge of who is obese because of eating too much or someone with metabolic problems? Can anyone rightly judge that?
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As for me, no. I am not a picture of perfect health, nor am I at the right weight level. I am about 15-20 pounds overweight and it is because I do not control that carnal side of me that is to be crucified. If I would live in moderation as the Bible describes I would be at the right weight level.
The thing I think is the most profound is how we think that the things God has said doesn't mean anything. We live in a society that does not want to take responsibility and because of that we think that this thing called the Bible is just a guideline that we can pick and choose over, making excuses for everyone.
Did you know that thin people can be gluttons? Did you know that thin people can eat too much but never show signs of it?
Gluttony should be preached against, but who says what I eat is too much? Who judges what you eat to be too much?
Some people eat more than others. If they can handle it, so what? Others eat like birds and maintain their weight. So what? Do they have the right to tell those who don't eat like birds that they are eating too much? Do we have the right to tell the 350 man that he should be eating salad and not a ribeye steak, or accuse him of gluttony for not dieting as he should?
Sorry if you are offended at my harshness on this topic, but understand my history here. I have a thread with my picture on it that was taken less than 2 years ago. In that pic, I weighed 357 pounds at 5'10". I worked a full-time job as a nurse and am the single parent of 2 children.
Yet I know people looked at me as lazy, stupid, and a slob. Yet, I was on my feet, carrying around 357 pounds over 40 hours a week on the job, and over 60 hours a week off the job. For the better part of 15 years, I have worked and went to school to continue my education, all while weighing that much, and even more (my highest weight was 389, four years ago). Can you do that? Can anyone who thinks that fat people are lazy carry that much around with them all the time?
Yet my problems weren't due to eating too much. Were there bad choices I made in my eating habits? Of course. I'm gonna take a wild guess that everyone on this forum does this daily. But I was judged wrongly by people who thought that I was a glutton due to my size. I had thin friends that could out-eat me!
But what really puzzled me is your admission that you also have an overweight issue yet judge those who are more overweight as you for having the nerve to preach against other sins while being gluttonous themselves.
Overweight is overweight. Just because you aren't 'that' overweight doesn't make you less of a glutton (according to your eyes) than someone extremely overweight, nor does it make you more qualified to preach against other sins.
This may not be what you intended, but this is how I saw your post.
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Interesting post, I can see why you are so sensitive to this.
Understand a couple of things:
1. I am not judging anyone, nor am I preaching
2. Gluttony has a definition and is not a broad stroke
3. I never accused someone that is overweight that they are lazy or a slob, that came out of your heart and more than likely from true experiences as that prejudice is very common
I agree with you that a skinny person can be a glutton. No doubt about it, they may have the metabolism to process high amounts of food, but they can still be over eating. We agree! There are miracles that still occur.
Having said that we all know that the majority of people who yield themselves to the spirit of gluttony will become overweight. Having a high metabolism that can process the types of fried and preserved foods we eat is rare. So to link gluttony and overeating together would not be inaccurate although it might not always be accurate.
I never defined what is overweight. I mentioned that I am 15-20 pounds overweight...that is by my definition. If I went by the medical charts I would be probably around 50 pounds overweight, but I don't look good or feel good at that weight. So I am not defining what is overweight. Weight is a range for every person. One 6' person could weight 175 and another 210 and both be healthy depending on bone structure and muscle. So don't put words in my mouth.
You said, "Gluttony should be preached against, but who says what I eat is too much?" That's what I said, gluttony I did not define what people eat. If you read my posts without the hurt of the past you will see that I am actually saying what you said.
I am not offended. There are a lot of things posted here that I don't agree with. I am sure there are a lot of people who don't agree with me. Isn't that the whole idea of a discussion like this -- share opinions, discuss topic?
I never once called or considered you lazy or stupid, and actually from the picture I would have thought you were thin to average build.
I think you are right that we all make bad choices...that's why I am 15-20 pounds overweight (just had pizza and two choc chip cookies for lunch), but just because we all make bad choices does that justify the choice? I say no. You can live how you want...in fact if you knew me you find that I am not judgmental at all.
I recently had a man addicted to pornography and masturbation come to me and ask for help, I have a women who battles drug addiction and anorexia confide in me, I have all types of people who will come to me because I am not judgmental.
You said that, "nor does it make you more qualified to preach against other sins." Actually the Word of God makes us all qualified to preach against sin. I believe in freedom. You can live however you want, but God has a Word that we are all suppose to live by. I am not going to make an excuse as to why I am not doing it. It is not hard to find out what is floating people's boat...listen to the words and watch the lifestyle.
Now, for you. Can I try to encourage you in something. You have obviously been hurt by the judgments of others, unless you were just a workaholic you probably had to work that much to make ends meet. Those types of situations can birth bitterness, hurt, resentment, offense, and frustration in the heart of a person. All of that will hurt you more than it hurts anyone else. Those who have judged you wrongly, those who may have contributed to the situation that caused you to have to work that much -- forgive them. As we live free in our heart we open the door for the Spirit of God to restore, to mend, and to put us in a position to receive His blessings. Let God's love rule in your heart, He'll take care of the ones who need to be taken care of.
Love ya in the Lord, sorry to have touched you in such a negative way.
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