Baptism: Essential or Not - Page 8

deacon blues · #1 01-21-2011, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Corneilius received the Holy Spirit before being baptized thats true. Yet as soon as he was finished speaking in tongues he and all his household were COMMANDED by the Apostle Peter be BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.

I WONDER WHY?

The Apostles COMMANDED the Antioch church to abstain from meat offered to idols, from blood, and from the meat of strangled animals in Acts 15. That didn't make those things essential to salvation.

Michael The Disciple · #2 01-21-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deacon blues

The Apostles COMMANDED the Antioch church to abstain from meat offered to idols, from blood, and from the meat of strangled animals in Acts 15. That didn't make those things essential to salvation.

Why was it so important to Peter for them to be baptized in the name of the Lord that he commanded this IMMEDIATELY when they were finished speaking in tongues?

Could it be because he knew Jesus said we must be born of WATER and the Spirit to enter the Kingdom?

Stephanas · #3 01-21-2011, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Corneilius received the Holy Spirit before being baptized thats true. Yet as soon as he was finished speaking in tongues he and all his household were COMMANDED by the Apostle Peter be BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD.

I WONDER WHY?

Peter commanded Cornelius and his household to be baptized because neither he nor the Jewish brothers with him could deny that God had purified their heart by faith.

Acts 15:9 "And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith."

If the hearts been purified by faith, the new believer should be baptized. After you've believed with the heart, it's time to make confession with the mouth, and the water of baptism is a perfect place to confess Christ.

Truthseeker · #4 01-21-2011, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephanas

Peter commanded Cornelius and his household to be baptized because neither he nor the Jewish brothers with him could deny that God had purified their heart by faith.

Acts 15:9 "And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith."

If the hearts been purified by faith, the new believer should be baptized. After you've believed with the heart, it's time to make confession with the mouth, and the water of baptism is a perfect place to confess Christ.

And what happened to Cornelius that Peter or any of the elders could deny them baptism??

DAII · #5 01-20-2011, 06:02 AM

Using the same hermeneutic ... my 3 stepper friends use ... allowing historical narrative, rather than didactic teaching to guide biblical interpretation .... I can most definitely prove that God-ordained, faith-filled believers should smote rocks and it should release water.

Exodus 17:1-7
Numbers 20:1-13

Michael The Disciple · #6 01-20-2011, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Dan

Only believing on Him can be explicitly linked to the new birth. Or being born of the Spirit.

Theres where you miss it. You limit faith to that moment one first believes. Actually faith is the vehicle that takes you on the journey of the life with Christ.

mizpeh · #7 01-20-2011, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Theres where you miss it. You limit faith to that moment one first believes. Actually faith is the vehicle that takes you on the journey of the life with Christ.

Michael The Disciple · #8 01-20-2011, 05:05 PM

Consider this:

You all that teach "faith alone" for the new birth say you really believe in baptism and it really is "important". How can you explain the drive the Apostles and Ministry of the early Church had to see a believer baptized IMMEDIATELY?

You know like at Pentecost when as many as gladly received the word were baptized that day. Like when Phillip is out in the DESERT where normally no water should even be yet as he PREACHED CHRIST to the eunuch he said "here is water what hinders me from being baptized"?.

As if preaching Christ would INCLUDE PREACHING baptism. And when Saul was converted Anannias says first thing "rise and be baptized calling on the name of the Lord washing away thy sins". Like when the Phillipian jailer and family were baptized THE SAME HOUR OF THE NIGHT.

Your belief cannot explain this urgency. The only thing that CAN explain it is they understood what Jesus taught and commanded them to teach. That baptism was an essential part of the new birth.

I mean Billy Grahm, Charles Stanley, Chuck Swindoll and these Evangelical teachers have no scriptural backing for their "conversions" that replace water baptism with a pat on the back and a exhortation to join the Church of your choice.

Yet todays Apostolics for some reason seem like they are rushing headlong to be united to Evangelical teaching.

deacon blues · #9 01-20-2011, 09:58 PM

What about the thief on the cross? Was he saved? Why does heaven rejoice of one soul that repents if they are still bound for hell?

LUKE2447 · #10 01-21-2011, 09:47 AM

To cleanse a heart by faith is not about remission of sins directly in relationship to being born again and coming into covenant. It is talking about change of mind or acceptance of the message. If I am a liberal or conservative and I switch sides. One could say my mind/heart has been changed/cleansed by the knowledge I have accepted as true. In the case of baptism in Acts 10. To change ones mind is to respond as would should. Be baptized to be united with Christ. Faith involves many aspects and relation to what is known and revealed in short and to a longer period of ones life. To have faith means your heart is not at enmity with God. Does not mean your past sins have been forgiven or you have come into covenant and united with Christ. Baptism only can be meaningful IF your heart is turned to him and not at enmity.