False Doctrine Part 1 - How To Stop Sinning

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

so basically OSAS. Since I never chose it I cannot lose it. I also noticed you ignored Christ direct Words. So your first sentence is heresy.!

Not exactly. If we continue to live and act out in sin willfully, and habitually, we are in essence failing to believe and trust in God. How that works out for one's eternal state, I do not know. But I don't personally believe one can continue in actions of unbelief without eventually becoming an unbeliever. Again, not sure how that works out. Doesn't keep me up at night. I have great confidence in His work done for us.

And my first sentence is Gospel, btw. Not heresy.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Socialite

And if one thinks they can lose their salvation because of some sin they committed, they are essentially saying that what Christ did for them is insufficient.

They are looking to Christ PLUS their keeping of the Law. It misses the whole point of the gospel which is that Christ saves from first to last. The passage that warns the Hebrews against falling away is warning them against one thing: abandoning trust in Christ alone by going back to now worthless and obsolete things, such as trusting in the temple sacrifice and the Law in order to be justified. The warnings in Henrews are given to those in the covenant community that they would not be tempted to turn from trusting Jesus alone (who is God over all) for some lesser or meaningless ritual act or law keeping that supposedly now can curry God's favor. Trusting in anything except Christ alone, who is the light that scatters all shadows, is said to be tantamount to "trampling under foot the Son of God", that is, believing that His once of all sacrifice is insufficient in itself to save. If something in place of, or in addition to, Jesus is trusted in it is no different than a denial of Him. So in context, the persons who go back by trading in Christ for the now-empty ritual of the temple (that itself was meant to point to the fulfillment in Christ), are then re-crucifying the Son to their shame. But unfortunately, Hebrews 6:4-8 is often read in isolation apart from this context.

As far as John 15 -- He has most certainly called us to obedience. This does not mean the salvation spotlight turns to our performance. Rather, He wants us to live as we are. (I will add that John 15 is not a contradiction to the rest of the NT)

yep thought so... OSAS. Typical false doctrine that negates biblical principle all throughout the Bible.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

so basically OSAS. Since I never chose it I cannot lose it. I also noticed you ignored Christ direct Words. So your first sentence is heresy!

Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Joh 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Joh 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Joh 15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Keep reading

"This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13(Z) Greater love has no one than this,(AA) that someone lay down his life for his friends. 14You are(AB) my friends(AC) if you do what I command you. 15(AD) No longer do I call you servants,[a] for the servant[b](AE) does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for(AF) all that I have heard from my Father(AG) I have made known to you. 16You did not choose me, but(AH) I chose you and appointed you that you should go and(AI) bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that(AJ) whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. 17These things I command you,(AK) so that you will love one another.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

yep thought so... OSAS. Typical false doctrine that negates biblical principle all throughout the Bible.

Why does that disturb you so much? What is it in your heart that grates on you?

Why the categorization? You heard the Gospel just now. Christ's work. Jesus paying it all. Are you upset because you want you sacrifice to merit something? Are you upset because you want to control other believers?

Grace works. It's perseverent. I clarified I don't believe in OSAS, but I do believe in Once Saved Hard To Lose Salvation. Grace is a pretty potent thing

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Keep reading

"This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. 13(Z) Greater love has no one than this,(AA) that someone lay down his life for his friends. 14You are(AB) my friends(AC) if you do what I command you. 15(AD) No longer do I call you servants,[a] for the servant[b](AE) does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for(AF) all that I have heard from my Father(AG) I have made known to you. 16You did not choose me, but(AH) I chose you and appointed you that you should go and(AI) bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that(AJ) whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. 17These things I command you,(AK) so that you will love one another.

IF you do.... Who is he speaking to? I guess they don't choose anything right? He said IF you continue you are my friends. IF you do what I command you, you abide in my love. That is conditional salvation as it is ALL througout the NT.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Why does that disturb you so much? What is it in your heart that grates on you?

Why the categorization? You heard the Gospel just now. Christ's work. Jesus paying it all. Are you upset because you want you sacrifice to merit something? Are you upset because you want to control other believers?

Grace works. It's perseverent. I clarified I don't believe in OSAS, but I do believe in Once Saved Hard To Lose Salvation. Grace is a pretty potent thing

Grace is simply God showing favor and the result was the cross. That's it! has nothing to do with doing away with commandments but a removal of a covenant for a new. Grace is not your actions are not judged sin still and have a direct relationship to your standing. Grace does not negate law.
Grace does not allow sin to not be judged and still go to heaven without repenting.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

IF you do.... Who is he speaking to? I guess they don't choose anything right? He said IF you continue you are my friends. IF you do what I command you, you abide in my love. That is conditional salvation as it is ALL througout the NT.

No such thing, friend.

This is discipleship at its best. Gospel of John shows us 3 ways we know we are disciples:

1) Love one another
2) Abide in my Word
3) Bear good fruit

The subject here is not justification, being made right with God, salvation or even the Gospel. This is pure discipleship.

I think The Message gets the heart of what Jesus is saying:
I've loved you the way my Father has loved me. Make yourselves at home in my love. If you keep my commands, you'll remain intimately at home in my love. That's what I've done—kept my Father's commands and made myself at home in his love.

The point is not a regiment or way to be saved. It's a Jesus Exhortation. This just after the parallel Mt 28 Commission the chapter prior, combined with "Vine and Branches."

I don't have the perfect answer for you, but the heart of Jesus' message is not "obey me, and you'll be saved." It's "you couldn't get it right on your own, your disobedience has been a problem, I'm going to pay the price for you, now let me gift my life to you. And now I will teach you to live in my life."

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Grace is simply God showing favor and the result was the cross. That's it! has nothing to do with doing away with commandments but a removal of a covenant for a new. Grace is not your actions are not judged sin still and have a direct relationship to your standing. Grace does not negate law.
Grace does not allow sin to not be judged and still go to heaven without repenting.

Don't know which Grace Story you've been reading.

And no one has one time mentioned a person should not have a heart turned toward God (repenting). I think, like the Jews, you are on your seat about licentiousness. That's not how a Christ Follower behaves, nor one that has so freely received such an expensive gift.

Grace is not simply "showing favor." Where are you getting that from?

Our entire Gospel is Grace. There's no minimizing about it.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Socialite

No such thing, friend.

This is discipleship at its best. Gospel of John shows us 3 ways we know we are disciples:

1) Love one another
2) Abide in my Word
3) Bear good fruit

The subject here is not justification, being made right with God, salvation or even the Gospel. This is pure discipleship.

I think The Message gets the heart of what Jesus is saying:
I've loved you the way my Father has loved me. Make yourselves at home in my love. If you keep my commands, you'll remain intimately at home in my love. That's what I've done—kept my Father's commands and made myself at home in his love.

The point is not a regiment or way to be saved. It's a Jesus Exhortation. This just after the parallel Mt 28 Commission the chapter prior, combined with "Vine and Branches."

I don't have the perfect answer for you, but the heart of Jesus' message is not "obey me, and you'll be saved." It's "you couldn't get it right on your own, your disobedience has been a problem, I'm going to pay the price for you, now let me gift my life to you. And now I will teach you to live in my life."

don't ever quote "The Message" to me.

It is about justification. To be considered "right before God" one must be walking in faith to the Word given. That is "to do" his commandments. Abraham was justified because he responded all throughout his life "rightly". Just as Abraham obeyed and responded properly to his Word so do we and are also considered friends to God.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

don't ever quote "The Message" to me. :lala

It is about justification. To be considered "right before God" one must he walking in faith. That is "to do" his commandments. Abraham was justified because he responded all throughout his life "rightly". Just as Abraham obeyed and responded properly to his Word so do we and are also considered friends to God.

So, when you sin... do you believe you lose relationship with God at that moment?

How often do you think sin is in your heart? Once every hour? Once a day? Once a month? Once a year? How often do we fail to trust or believe something about God?

(I won't quote the message to you anymore... though I think his paraphrase nails it many times)