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View Poll Results: Is Gods Love Unconditional?
Gods love is unconditional. 19 73.08%
There are conditions upon his love. 7 26.92%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 06-03-2013, 01:36 PM
LUKE2447 LUKE2447 is offline
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Yes, God's LOVE is unconditional.

Our salvation is not unconditional but His LOVE for His Creation is, in fact, unconditional.

I'd even go as far as to state that if God's LOVE is conditional, then our faith is no different than any of the other world religions that begin with the morality of man.
True Christianity does not begin with man and is not made complete by the morality of man.
As if this has anything to do with it argument from scripture. Is his mercy everlasting? Yes! Does that mean you receive mercy no matter what? NO! Same thing!

His love is not unconditional. Scripture is VERY clear about this. His love was his death on the cross. However his love is received by those WHO BELIEVE which is contextual. You say it is unconditional. I want you to DEFINE what is LOVE! Since whatever it is is just being thrown around very generally.
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  #2  
Old 06-04-2013, 07:01 AM
Antipas Antipas is offline
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

Many also forget that salvation isn't a static state. The soul evolves and develops.
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  #3  
Old 06-04-2013, 07:09 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

Quote:
JD

Furthermore, God's Love is unconditional as He demonstrated His Love to us before we were even born.

That means, that while you were in your mother's womb, God had already demonstrated His unconditional love towards you-- and not just to you, but to all mankind.

This is a basic tenet of Christianity and I can't for the life of me understand why one earth there would be a debate about this.
Where do you get this?

If anything happened before we were ever born it was the choosing of the elect.

11 (For the children being not yet born , neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand , not of works, but of him that calleth 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written , Jacob have I loved , but Esau have I hated . Rom. 9:11-13

God did chose us before we were ever born on an unconditional basis. This is the only context where the term "unmerited favor" applies. It was based on nothing that we did. We were not even born.

It was going to be according to the purpose of God. He decided before the world began to draw certain ones to himself. He also decided not to draw certain others. Jacob he loved before he was born. Esau he hated before he was born.

Paul continues:

14 What shall we say then ? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid . 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy , and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion . 16 So then it is not of him that willeth , nor of him that runneth , but of God that sheweth mercy . Romans 9:14-16

Note God does not say he will have compassion and mercy on everyone but rather upon whom he will. Paul defends God by saying there is nothing wrong with that. Paul shows us why God is just in doing it that way.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up , that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth . 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault ? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God ? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Rom. 9:17-21

Paul reasons since God made the vessels he has the right to do whatever he wants with them. Some he makes for honor others for dishonor. This is called "the sovereignty of God".

So our calling or drawing to God is unconditional in that its based soley on the will of God. As Paul said "who has resisted his will"?

He continues

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known , endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called , not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? Rom. 9:22-24

Rather than loving all mankind in the mothers womb some are prepared as vessels fitted to destruction. Paul said God is willing to show his wrath and make his power known unto the vessels of mercy.

So it seems we can say Gods love is unconditional in the drawing of the elect. He draws they come. He has willed it to be so. And yet when they do come he then sets out conditions for his love.

9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. John 15:9-10

The condition he presents to us is if we keep his commandments we will remain in his love. It isn't that hard to see but I admit its much different than many have been taught.

The true God is love. But his love is nowhere I know of without condition except before we were born.

Last edited by Michael The Disciple; 06-04-2013 at 07:12 AM.
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  #4  
Old 06-04-2013, 01:33 PM
LUKE2447 LUKE2447 is offline
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Where do you get this?

If anything happened before we were ever born it was the choosing of the elect.

11 (For the children being not yet born , neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand , not of works, but of him that calleth 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written , Jacob have I loved , but Esau have I hated . Rom. 9:11-13

God did chose us before we were ever born on an unconditional basis. This is the only context where the term "unmerited favor" applies. It was based on nothing that we did. We were not even born.

It was going to be according to the purpose of God. He decided before the world began to draw certain ones to himself. He also decided not to draw certain others. Jacob he loved before he was born. Esau he hated before he was born.

Paul continues:

14 What shall we say then ? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid . 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy , and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion . 16 So then it is not of him that willeth , nor of him that runneth , but of God that sheweth mercy . Romans 9:14-16

Note God does not say he will have compassion and mercy on everyone but rather upon whom he will. Paul defends God by saying there is nothing wrong with that. Paul shows us why God is just in doing it that way.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up , that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth . 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault ? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God ? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Rom. 9:17-21

Paul reasons since God made the vessels he has the right to do whatever he wants with them. Some he makes for honor others for dishonor. This is called "the sovereignty of God".

So our calling or drawing to God is unconditional in that its based soley on the will of God. As Paul said "who has resisted his will"?

He continues

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known , endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called , not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? Rom. 9:22-24

Rather than loving all mankind in the mothers womb some are prepared as vessels fitted to destruction. Paul said God is willing to show his wrath and make his power known unto the vessels of mercy.

So it seems we can say Gods love is unconditional in the drawing of the elect. He draws they come. He has willed it to be so. And yet when they do come he then sets out conditions for his love.

9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. John 15:9-10

The condition he presents to us is if we keep his commandments we will remain in his love. It isn't that hard to see but I admit its much different than many have been taught.

The true God is love. But his love is nowhere I know of without condition except before we were born.
Yes God choose those before the world began according to his will. However his will is based on justice toward man. Not just oh... hmmm him her... uh him. God chose those based on his seeing how things came about and his reaction to man and his free will BEFORE it happned. It is the natural process of imagination and the resulting actuality and occurence of events. so yes Pharoah was set before the world began as a vessel of destruction BUT Pharoah was a result of his own free will. God knew before creation and it's events how and why things wold transpire. By God know the best result possible the elect destiny of everyone was agreed to. In reality unconditional love has nothing to do with election of predestination. God gave his son because some would turn to him. By simple numbers and foreknowledge.
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  #5  
Old 06-04-2013, 01:45 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

It seems people are getting God's love confused with conditions for salvation (and election).

I also see some are flirting with Calvin/Augustine in their understanding of Romans 9.

I see a new thread coming... lol
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  #6  
Old 06-04-2013, 02:22 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
It seems people are getting God's love confused with conditions for salvation (and election).

I also see some are flirting with Calvin/Augustine in their understanding of Romans 9.

I see a new thread coming... lol
I never flirt with men. Paul got his understanding from Christ. He would have not dared speak his own thoughts.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44

65 And he said , Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back , and walked no more with him. 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve , Will ye also go away ? John 6:65

I have never read anything by Augustine. I think I tried to read Calvin once for about 10 minutes.

The words of Christ are spirit and they are life. I read them daily and he blesses!
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Old 06-04-2013, 02:58 PM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post

I never flirt with men.

I think that is a good practice, my brother!
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  #8  
Old 06-04-2013, 04:13 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

What is meant by 'unconditional love'? Has anyone in this thread who supports the idea that his love is 'unconditional' actually defined what they mean by that?
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  #9  
Old 06-04-2013, 05:23 PM
MarcBee MarcBee is offline
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
It seems people are getting God's love confused with conditions for salvation (and election)....
No, in NT, god's love is often closely linked in with salvation, and therefore the conditions for salvation. It's a natural question to consider the "conditions" by which one may or may not see "love" do something practical (such as the avoidance of eternal torture), and not just theoretical. John 3:16 is one example.

Here's another example, in human terms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A2MBneb7lc
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:59 AM
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crakjak crakjak is offline
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Re: Poll: Is Gods Love Unconditional

Quote:
Originally Posted by LUKE2447 View Post
Yes God choose those before the world began according to his will. However his will is based on justice toward man. Not just oh... hmmm him her... uh him. God chose those based on his seeing how things came about and his reaction to man and his free will BEFORE it happned. It is the natural process of imagination and the resulting actuality and occurence of events. so yes Pharoah was set before the world began as a vessel of destruction BUT Pharoah was a result of his own free will. God knew before creation and it's events how and why things wold transpire. By God know the best result possible the elect destiny of everyone was agreed to. In reality unconditional love has nothing to do with election of predestination. God gave his son because some would turn to him. By simple numbers and foreknowledge.
Great effort to excuse God, the creator, and blame the created!!! Human definition of the all powerful, all knowing God, that IS LOVE, is so distorted it swells the brain of mere humans.
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