Does the golden rule save without the cross?

[shazeep]

“Wherefore I say unto thee, her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much."

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Other people need to know, though.

[shazeep]

amen. read the whole thread and let the Spirit guide you, or just look at the "poll" results.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

I never once said it is impossible to practice!

Wow, can this guy twist things!

I said we cannot do it TO THE DEGREE GOD DOES IT. Of course we can practice it. I never said we could not, nor intimated that we could not. WE CAN PRACTICE IT.

Now, I notice how you AVOIDED directly answering my question.

So, let me ask it again, :

Do you believe one need know not about the cross of Jesus Christ upon which He died, and was then buried and resurrected again, but can obey the golden rule and be saved?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

of course not, BH, no one is saying that there is, that is ridiculous. We were just getting a little too close to the truth, and Mr B felt threatened, so he indulged himself with a thread to reaffirm how it's ok to ignore the Word of Christ, as long as you triple-swear that you love Jesus, and finger-crossies don't count. You are saved as long as you say the right words and sincerely mean them, almost surely probably.

This is deceitful.

This man believes that people who deny the cross of Jesus even existed can still be saved without learning about it. You see, when he says "cross" he does not limit it to the cross Jesus died on for our salvation. He says WE CARRY OUR CROSSES when we deny ourselves, and that saves us! And he claims doing good to others as we would have done to us is carrying OUR crosses, and THAT SAVES US.

He tries to make us look like we believe we have to say the right words. But as many times as this false accusation has been proposed I confirmed again and again that words mean nothing. It's our faith in Christ's death on the cross for our salvation, and obedience
tot he word of God that shows the works we have that otherwise make our faith dead.

Ask him if he believes obedience to the golden rule saves us.

Originally Posted by shazeep

that would also be fine, yes.

I asked him if the Koran's statement that JESUS DID NOT DIE ON A CROSS allows those who believe it to be saved anyway, if they keep the golden rule. HE SAID YES!

[shazeep]

that is my belief personally, but i am not trying to suggest anyone else believe that; i might easily be wrong there. The point was that you cannot accept Christ with your mouth.

Originally Posted by mfblume

those who KNOW what they are saying and actually PLEAD THE BLOOD in reality, are indeed living in grace.

[mfblume]

Shazeep,

Mat 7:12....Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

When we read "for this is the law and prophets," that is the same thing as saying the golden rule fulill the law. So, does fulfilling law mean one is saved?

Mat 22:37-40....Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. ..(38)....This is the first and great commandment. ..(39)....And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. ..(40)....On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

If Jesus never died on the cross, would obedience to these two commandmenmts (love God, and love your neighbour as yourself), save us?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

that is my belief personally, but i am not trying to suggest anyone else believe that; i might easily be wrong there. The point was that you cannot accept Christ with your mouth.

I agree totally and forever wonder why you think I believe otherwise? With the HEART MAN BELIEVETH UNTO SALVATION, and we merely confess what our hearts. But confession is not the kicker. It's BELIEF.

[mfblume]

Shazeep, do you believe if a person never had faith in anything about the death, burial and resurrection OF JESUS, but lived like the good Samaritan and obeyed the golden rule, he or she would be saved?

Originally Posted by shazeep

Can you explain why someone would intentionally hate their own life? Why did the Good Samaritan help the guy in the ditch? He did not believe Christ on the cross, so why is he held up as an example to emulate?

Originally Posted by mfblume

The Qur'an says what you are saying, yes, but it also says follow Christ or be doomed, and in more places, i note. Consider that you might be misunderstanding these, as they seem to conflict. Consider that the RCC had the world awash in blood then, much like your religion has it now, and for a Muslim perhaps your demand has a different, legal meaning to them that does not approach its spiritual meaning. Consider that there are 100 points of Scripture that a Muslim would fully agree with for every one that you manage to condemn them with. Of course, they are all the verses you have spiritually edited out, but whatever.

So here we read that, yes, muslims deny the crucifixion of Jesus ever took place, but you are saying WE MUST CONSIDER that the Koran ALSO SAYS to follow Christ. Now, obviously following Christ does not mean believing He died on the cross for our sins to these people. But if we CONSIDER their faith in following Christ, you are implying God do not have to demand they believe in the crucifixion OF JESUS to be saved, so long as they follow Jesus WITHOUT faith in his death burial and resurrection/

And you say YOU DO NOT DENY THE CROSS? YOU believe it happened. But that's not the question. YOU ALSO BELIEVE [b][u]people do not have to believe it even existed so long as they follow the golden rule or live like the good samaritan. THAT is denying the cross by saying it is not absolutely essential FOR ONE'S SALVATION. That's what I mean. Is it essential with no room for not believing in it, like you have given to those whose holy books teach them it never even occurred? If so, that is the context context of what I mean to deny the cross.

We can carry our crosses all our lives, but we still deny THE cross when we deny Jesus even so much as died. And the danger of that is the bible teaches all OUR righteousnesses are as filthy rags. IOW, carry YOUR cross, and be like the good Samaritan and always obey the golden rule, but all of that amounts to filthy rags without the righteousness GRANTED to us for believing the work of Christ's cross was necessary for our salvation, and believing we died with Him for that righteousness.

[shazeep]

Ask him if he believes obedience to the golden rule saves us.

who are you even talking to, Mr B. Why not ask Christ?

12“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

16In the same way, let your light shinet before men, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father in heaven.u

Christ Fulfills the Law

17“Don’t assume that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.v 18For •I assure you: Until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letterw or one stroke of a letter will pass from the law until all things are accomplished. 19Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commands and teaches people to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.x 20For I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the •scribes and •Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Murder Begins in the Heart

wherein you might pay particular attention to the 'teaching others to do so' part.
so yes, you must have works, and in fact, works are what you must have to demonstrate your faith, and you demonstrate that you do not understand when you imagine that All Catholics are lost, and pretend that you have not sinned, and you add sin to sin when you teach others that they can accept Christ with their mouth, and diminish the Golden Rule.

really, it is a very simple concept, and if you are genuinely confused just put the two concepts to a 6 year old and they will indicate the truth to you, which you still will not accept because you are guilty of judging, and wish to continue doing so because you enjoy it, and it boosts your ego, or put another way, it allows you to imagine that you are superior to others.

i apologize for going on like this, but you sin, and refuse to repent, and you are in my church, so i am doing the best i know how as i understand it; we are currently essentially hearing further from our peers on the matter concerning my having brought "All Catholics Are Lost" to them, as you would not believe me when i first mentioned it, and as the real, unbiased poll has already verified, to whit; you do not know, just as Scripture tells us quite plainly,

You think you can judge, but you cannot!

and yet you persist. Good day.