Body Language....Womens hair

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Rico

If what you are saying is true, then why do so many orthodox Jewish men have such long hair growing down the side of their heads? I know it's because of that scripture that talks about not marring the sides of the beard, but it seems to contradict what you said in the bolded part. The part of their head that they let the hair grow long on doesn't look like their beards. It looks like the hair on the side of their heads.

Those are their side lockes. They clip the rest of their hair. but also I am not sure if they even clip those too. They do grow the side lockes long

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

I'm not satisfied with that answer. lol But, my books are all on their way to Texas so I can't look it up for myself right now.

If you want to use culture as proof of what you believe, you're welcome to. I can't though.

I'm going to guess this is a mistranslation of something that we're reading in English, or a misapplication of a translation. I am interested in seeing what it really says. After I get moved and settled I can look for myself, and after I get internet I can try to remember this thread exists and post what I discovered. I'll likely forget I even want to look this up though after I get moved. lol

Well, this has been a divisive issue for a lot of folks, so I'm actually going to try not to get bogged down in the doctrinal debate on it. This issue has been hashed and rehashed ad nauseam already on this forum and I'm not one to get antagonistic with folks over this issue.

However, to just respond to a few of your points above:

a...I'm not using culture as "proof" of anything.
I said that what I believed on that was based on scripture, and I quoted you the scripture. And scripture is enough by itself.
But I'm simply saying what we see in cultures worldwide is simply confirmation of what scripture says.

b... You're "going to guess" theres some mistranslation? (or a misapplication of a translation)?
I must say I find that intriguing.
If, as you yourself say,you haven't even looked into it yet, why would you be so quick to "guess" that? Is it because it doesn't fit into your preconceived thoughts on the issue?

Sister, if you're not satisfied with the answer, as you say, that's fine. At the end of the day, it is what it is, no matter what you or I think. I would just ask, though, that you would just allow the scripture to mean what it actually means, rather than try to make it mean what you'd prefer for it to mean.

c... Even if you haven't got your books with you, there are many online resources you can look at to see that there is no "mistranslation" at all.
The Greek word there is "phusis", which comes from a root word with means to beget, to spring up, to produce. Phusis is most commonly translated as 'nature' in the New Testament.
Here is an online breakdown of the meaning of phusis, including the way it is used all 14 times it appears in the NT.
http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/l...gs=G5449&t=kjv

[steve p]

See.....and I just asked a simple question....and now your talking about Hassidic Jews, hormones and men with womens parts.....and all I asked was who determined what was considered long and short.....LOL

[DanielR]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

[/INDENT]If you travel around the globe and look at the thousands of different cultures and subcultures around the world, it is almost a universally accepted practice that the women's hair will be longer than the men's. Do we think thats just by accident? I think not.

What Paul is saying in scripture there just pretty much confirms what we already see with our own eyes.

So are you suggesting that Paul is saying that men need to have short hair just because that is the way the world system is?

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Well, this has been a divisive issue for a lot of folks, so I'm actually going to try not to get bogged down in the doctrinal debate on it. This issue has been hashed and rehashed ad nauseam already on this forum and I'm not one to get antagonistic with folks over this issue.

Eh, wasn't trying to bring the divisive nature of this beast out. Just trying to understand how nature indicates this. And yeah, if you wanna meet someone tired of the division over Scripture, you'd be looking at her. I don't ask nearly the questions I have because of this. It's not worth it to me to seek differing points of view when they all eat each other for lunch.

Originally Posted by TRFrance

However, to just respond to a few of your points above:

a...I'm not using culture as "proof" of anything.
I said that what I believed on that was based on scripture, and I quoted you the scripture. And scripture is enough by itself.
But I'm simply saying what we see in cultures worldwide is simply confirmation of what scripture says.

That's fine, you may do this. I am a little more difficult to get along with, I know.

Originally Posted by TRFrance

b... You're "going to guess" theres some mistranslation? (or a misapplication of a translation)?
I must say I find that intriguing.
If, as you yourself say,you haven't even looked into it yet, why would you be so quick to "guess" that? Is it because it doesn't fit into your preconceived thoughts on the issue?

I tend to not go into study with *any* preconceived thoughts. Because nature has nothing to do with the length of hair of men or women, both will grow long if left to grow, something's not adding up. What that is, would take some time for me to figure out, and probably some consulting with others, much more educated than I am.

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Sister, if you're not satisfied with the answer, as you say, that's fine. At the end of the day, it is what it is, no matter what you or I think. I would just ask, though, that you would just allow the scripture to mean what it actually means, rather than try to make it mean what you'd prefer for it to mean.

I do not try to make Scripture say what I'd prefer it to mean. I just can't do that.

Originally Posted by TRFrance

c... Even if you haven't got your books with you, there are many online resources you can look at to see that there is no "mistranslation" at all.
The Greek word there is "phusis", which comes from a root word with means to beget, to spring up, to produce. Phusis is most commonly translated as 'nature' in the New Testament.
Here is an online breakdown of the meaning of phusis, including the way it is used all 14 times it appears in the NT.
http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/l...gs=G5449&t=kjv

Thanks. Even looking at that doesn't answer my questions about this verse, and what this means. This word has been translated as nature, natural, kind and mankind in the KJV. It leaves me curious as to what's really being said, that's all.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by DanielR

So are you suggesting that Paul is saying that men need to have short hair just because that is the way the world system is?

No. I'm not saying that at all.
I really don't even know where you're getting that from, since I said no such thing.

My words were pretty clear in that post.
If you don't understand it, feel free to go back and look again at what I said.

[DanielR]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

No, my sister. We know that men's hair doesn't stop growing while still short.

But to answer your question scripturally, look at what Paul said about the issue in 1 Cor 11:

14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

If you travel around the globe and look at the thousands of different cultures and subcultures around the world, it is almost a universally accepted practice that the women's hair will be longer than the men's. Do we think thats just by accident? I think not.

What Paul is saying in scripture there just pretty much confirms what we already see with our own eyes.

Originally Posted by DanielR

So are you suggesting that Paul is saying that men need to have short hair just because that is the way the world system is?

Originally Posted by TRFrance

No. I'm not saying that at all.
I really don't even know where you're getting that from, since I said no such thing.
My words were pretty clear in that post.
If you don't understand it, feel free to go back and look again at what I said.

It may not have been intentional, but you did elude to that thought.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by DanielR

It may not have been intentional, but you did elude to that thought.

Hardly.
No more than the Apostle Paul did in the text.

If you understand what Paul is saying in the verse in question, you'll understand what I meant. I was basically paraphrasing what Paul was essentially saying in that verse.

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Please don't put words in my mouth and I will treat you fine....I NEVER said one word about God favoring long haired women over short....

yes there are women with thinning hair....it's an abnormality....like men with too much estrogen growing breasts.

Not intentional, sorry you took offense.

[Praxeas]

It happens. Thanks for pointing out it was not intentional