Obey Them that Rule???

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Refer them to God. That isn't my place (to assess the validity of his advice and verbally disagree with the pastor). I would consider any action on my part, or any conversation contrary to his advice to be stirring up discord.

If the pastor asked for my input, that would be a different matter.

Originally Posted by ILG

So you would relenquish all your responsibility to help them with a "Take it to God?" Isn't that king of like saying "I know you're hungry, but since the pastor won't feed you, Be warmed and Filled!"

And that is why I don't fellowship with people in the church that I visit. There is so much that i have differing thoughts on, however I don't want to cause discord, however, It's hard to sit back and ignore people struggling with stuff that I think is silly, but not be allowed to help.

That's why this board gets the brunt of my angst!

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Chan

We don't have that right. We must go where God tells us to go.

I agree with you, Chan. My husband and I have always sought God before making any major decision (such as where to move our family and what church to attend), and we both feel that God has led us every step of the way.

However, if someone isn't spiritual, or if they haven't been paying attention to God's voice, that doesn't mean that God can't direct them somewhat anyway, and I don't think that means that the place they already are is necessarily the wrong place to be, simply because they didn't ask first.

IOW, I think God can direct our steps sometimes, even when we don't realize He's doing it, or when we've been stubbornly thinking we're directing ourselves.

[Coonskinner]

"Wrong" can be a mighty subjective term.

If he is telling them to do something sinful or unscriptural, ILG has a point.

But much of the time the pastor knows things about situations that others who like to second guess and play arm chair quarterback don't know. Thus, they think the advice is wrong when they are uninformed.

If your assessment of "wrong" is just personal disagreement based on opinion and not Scriptural grounds, then you need to do as Miss B has stated, because you are not the one given the oversight of the flock. that is the pastor.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by ILG

So you would relenquish all your responsibility to help them with a "Take it to God?" Isn't that king of like saying "I know you're hungry, but since the pastor won't feed you, Be warmed and Filled!"

I have a lot of trust in God. I believe that if someone seeks His face for an answer, He will give them one. I don't believe it is right for me to speak against something an elder or pastor or bishop has already said, at least, not while the other person is under their authority, and even then I would tread carefully, not wanting to disrespect the leadership.

To get simplistic on you, that would be like me telling someone else's child that their parents have given them bad advice and spurring them to act in contradiction to their parents' instruction. It's divisive. Again, I realize the relationships are "looser", but when it becomes a question of ethics, I believe referring them to God is the best option.

Of course, I can pray for them, and I'm sure that I would. I could also go directly to the pastor (assuming it wouldn't cause trouble for the other person) and direct my opinions to him, and let him see if any changes could be made. Are you underestimating God's ability to assist a person without my help, ILG?

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I agree with you, Chan. My husband and I have always sought God before making any major decision (such as where to move our family and what church to attend), and we both feel that God has led us every step of the way.

However, if someone isn't spiritual, or if they haven't been paying attention to God's voice, I don't think that doesn't mean that God can't direct them somewhat anyway, and I don't think that means that the place they already are is necessarily the wrong place to be, simply because they didn't ask first.

IOW, I think God can direct our steps sometimes, even when we don't realize He's doing it, or when we've been stubbornly thinking we're directing ourselves.

Absolutely!

[ChTatum]

Originally Posted by Michlow

Thanks Bro. Tatum. I'm not sure if you read the other thread where I stipulated this, but I want you to understand that I think the Pastor of the church I attend is a GREAT guy, and I have nothing against him or that congregation AT ALL! I just don't think he's right about some...well, ok many things, and that is what is at question, not him or his walk or anything.

I really want to make sure you understand that, as you know him, and I don't want you to think this is about him!

I haven't read it, but I think he is a great guy too. Maybe not my cup of tea, but still a great guy and a wonderful pastor.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

"Wrong" can be a mighty subjective term.

If he is telling them to do something sinful or unscriptural, ILG has a point.

But much of the time the pastor knows things about situations that others who like to second guess and play arm chair quarterback don't know. Thus, they think the advice is wrong when they are uninformed.

If your assessment of "wrong" is just personal disagreement based on opinion and not Scriptural grounds, then you need to do as Miss B has stated, because you are not the one given the oversight of the flock. that is the pastor.

No, I mean something that MB knows is wrong and not subjective.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by ILG

No, I mean something that MB knows is wrong and not subjective.

I think we all pretty much agree on this point. If a pastor or preacher or elder or whomever instructs us to do something that would result in disobeying God, it's an easy choice. (to submit to God, rather than man)

There is a difference between a pastor teaching something that is antibiblical, and teaching something that is extrabiblical. (Hopefully he isn't teaching that which is extrabiblical as if it is biblical, because that would be a problem), but teaching something as a practice because he feels it is beneficial is not problematic, as I see it.

Originally Posted by Chan

The Bible says no such thing and you are in rebellion against God if you try to make all these exceptions as to why you should not obey those that have the rule over you (the God-given rule). There's a very specific reason why the Bible uses the word "pastor." It has to do with being a shepherd. What does a shepherd do? He herds sheep. Guess who the sheep are: the saints in the pews.

With your reasoning I should blindly obey, just because they use the title Pastor, I don’t agree ! We have the right and power to place ourselves under who we wish to obey and let rule over us. I live in this world, yet I decide if I want let it rule me or not!



Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s


The response of Jesus when his enemies tried to trap him by asking whether it was right for the Jews, whose nation had been taken over by the Roman Empire, to pay tribute to the Roman emperor. He took a Roman coin that would be used to pay the tribute and asked whose picture was on it; his questioners answered, “Caesar’s.” The reply of Jesus implied that in using Roman coins, the Jews accepted the rule of the Romans, and so the Roman government had the right to tax them, as long as the Jews were not compromising their religious duties. Jesus’ more general point was, “Give to worldly authorities the things that belong to them, and to God what belongs to God.”

My point? I belong to God! Period~

[ILG]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I think we all pretty much agree on this point. If a pastor or preacher or elder or whomever instructs us to do something that would result in disobeying God, it's an easy choice. (to submit to God, rather than man)

There is a difference between a pastor teaching something that is antibiblical, and teaching something that is extrabiblical. (Hopefully he isn't teaching that which is extrabiblical as if it is biblical, because that would be a problem), but teaching something as a practice because he feels it is beneficial is not problematic, as I see it.

Okay, what if he is teaching that extrabiblical stuff is biblical and it is really harming the person and they are very confused? What do you do then?