Can a person have the Holy Ghost and be demon poss

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Exactly. I'd rather talk to someone who doesn't tell the stories, but has the follow through that matters. Not that the stories are bad to hear! But they alone don't help anyone.

Stories alone do not mean much, but when the long lasting evidence of a real change is seen in people's lives, that is more than stories. It is the "follow through."

[Esther]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Exactly. I'd rather talk to someone who doesn't tell the stories, but has the follow through that matters. Not that the stories are bad to hear! But they alone don't help anyone.

I think it helps the person that needs deliverance to hear the person praying for/with them has done this before and knows what they are doing.

To make it seem all about them. no. But to build faith. yes.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Exactly. I'd rather talk to someone who doesn't tell the stories, but has the follow through that matters. Not that the stories are bad to hear! But they alone don't help anyone.

I've had my faith boosted by such stories...

But yes, the follow-through is more important.

[mfblume]

Also, there are people who call everything about Pentecost to be flaky. Everything. And we can only say we experienced it, and show scriptures, but they are convinced their interpretations of the bible forbid tongues today, as folks here claim this issue with evil spirits is not possible. All anyone's claims can be to someone who "was not there" are so relative in contrast to reality.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

2 things....

a/ That doesn't really answer the original question of "is there a difference between a person being spirit-possessed, and them possessing a spirit?".

Ah, I see. I think there is a difference. In my experience, people who are "spirit-possessed" (demon possessed) are under the complete control of the possessing spirit. Then there are those who "possess a spirit" because it's gained a stronghold in their spirit, typically through sin. I believe, based on my experience, that the spirit(s) that a person may possess will work to oppress the individual until it gains complete possession.

b/ The distinction you're making between "fallen angels and unclean spirits" seems artificial.

Correct me if I'm mistaken on this but: What were those "unclean spirits" before they became "unclean sprits"? Weren't they angels... before they fell... thus they're fallen angels?

No. I don't believe they were... therefore I don't believe they are.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Ah, I see. I think there is a difference. In my experience, people who are "spirit-possessed" (demon possessed) are under the complete control of the possessing spirit. Then there are those who "possess a spirit" because it's gained a stronghold in their spirit, typically through sin. I believe that the spirit(s) that a person may possess will work to oppress the individual until it gains complete possession.

I agree.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Act 5:1 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property,
Act 5:2 and with his wife's knowledge he kept back for himself some of the proceeds and brought only a part of it and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land?
Act 5:4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."

The text does not assume he was a believer...least not filled with the Spirit (Yet). However the "speak" does not mean Satan Himself took possession of this individual. Rather he was influenced to lie.

Perhaps he did receive the Holy Spirit but lost it.

I'm just being nit picky here...

I think the text indicates that Ananias and Sapphira were part of the body. Here they clearly are following suit with the rest of the body, but holding back part of the price. Then they bring the other part of the price before the Apostles' feet, again indicating spiritual submission. I think it's most probable that they were Holy Ghost filled and Jesus name baptized. Maybe they were saved on the Day of Pentecost, we just don't know.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I agree.

It's sobering when you see it happen. A spirit gets a stronghold in a person's life and suddenly they're spinning out in sin, confused and suddenly struggling. They slowly fall into complete control of the spirit in question and it isn't long until they are reaping the consequences of sin in their lives and eventual death.

These unclean spirits have no remorse in their unceasing quest for sin, with which they destroy their host.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It's sobering when you see it happen. A spirit gets a stronghold in a person's life and suddenly they're spinning out in sin, confused and suddenly struggling. They slowly fall into complete control of the spirit in question and it isn't long until they are reaping the consequences of sin in their lives and eventual death.

These unclean spirits have no remorse in their unceasing quest for sin, with which they destroy their host.

There is victory for the, thank the Lord.

You know, people can get technical and avow their beliefs about everything, but when something genuinely helps someone and they are truly set free from bondage, who cares WHERE the spirit was, but that the person was helped.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Aquila

No. I don't believe they were... therefore I don't believe they are.

Well, based on your view of this, (with scriptural references, if possible) ... where did "unclean spirits" come from, if they are not fallen angels?

Did God simply create them as unclean spirits?