What Must I Do?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Not true, brother.

I believe that in order to be in perfect fellowship with a perfect God and live (or go) to Heaven one must be sinless... because God is sinless. Angels have the ability to sin, but they are of a spiritual nature and so can consciously choose not to without a fallen nature bidding them with constant temptation. The angels that did sin were cast out immediately. No repentance was afforded them.

To be sinless... it means far more than to be presently without sin. To be "sinless" means to have NEVER sinned in your past, to not have any sin of commission or omission (in thought or deed) in the present, and to never ever sin in the future. If one has sinned in the past... they are not "sinless". If one is in sin now, they are not sinless. If one will sin, from God's eternal perspective, they are not sinless.

Therefore I'm still a sin tainted creature, even if I'm currently not in sin... and even if I never sin again.

In order to go to Heaven and be in perfect fellowship with God, I need someone to exchange their identity with mine. I need someone to take my identity upon themselves and transfer their sinless identity to me. This is what Christ did on Calvary. Christ, who knew no sin, became sin (including my sin) that I might become the "righteousness of God". There was a perfect exchange. He took my place and died the death I deserved... so that I could take His place and dwell in eternal and perfect fellowship with God. When God sees me... He sees the sinless Christ Jesus. I am "in Christ". And being without sin, the grave had no right to hold Him forever. Therefore He paid the death penalty... and rose again victorious. I had a debt I could not pay... and He paid my debt in full... a debt that He did not owe.

So I am saved by grace through faith in the Son of God. I do not deserve healing, I do not deserve deliverance, I do not deserve to be saved. The only thing I deserve is... Hell.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Have to agree with Aquila on THIS point. God is not unjust if he does not draw everyone.

Paul explains that.

9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. Rom. 9:11-15

Verse 11 portrays grace as "unmerited favor". Jacob was chosen for no good he had done. Simply because God willed it so. He asks the question everyone today asks? Since God does this is he unrighteous? By this the implication is that God would not be just if he did not give everyone the same chance.

Read VERY carefully Pauls answer in verse 15. God does NOT promise everyone a chance to be saved. He says he will have mercy and compassion on whom he will.

His adversaries declare this unfair to mankind.

How does Paul answer them?

9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Paul answers by asking the question is it not fair to the potter to make vessels as he chooses? It would not be fair to the CREATOR if he could not. Paul is more concerned about whats just to the POTTER than he is the clay. Whats fair to God more than whats fair to men.

The clay or thing created cannot say anything to its maker.

I dont understand whats hard to understand about how Paul answers the charge that God is unjust. He lays it out pretty clear.

So on the fact of predestination Aquila is correct.

On the point of Acts 2:38 he disagrees with Peter and the Apostles.

Regeneration is only written one time in context of salvation and refers to water baptism in Titus 3:5

3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Thank you for explaining where we agree.

Not to be critical, it's a historic position... but do you believe in baptismal regeneration?

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes.

You must have some really bad good days, then. On my worst day, I don't deserve hell!

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by berkeley

You're not allowed to say that!

Oops...

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Thank you for explaining where we agree.

Not to be critical, it's a historic position... but do you believe in baptismal regeneration?

Yes I believe baptism that is done in faith saves. Peter said baptism saves us. Faith also draws the Spirit on us.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by Timmy

You must have some really bad good days, then. On my worst day, I don't deserve hell!

Let's take another poll to see how far your ratings have dropped.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by berkeley

Let's take another poll to see how far your ratings have dropped.

Let's wait till I'm having a good day.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Yes I believe baptism that is done in faith saves. Peter said baptism saves us. Faith also draws the Spirit on us.

I can respect that opinion.

I know there are different opinions out there. Regardless... I think one better be baptized. I mean, if it isn't salvational, it's still being obedient. And if it is... well... it would be a silly thing to loose one's soul over.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Timmy

You must have some really bad good days, then. On my worst day, I don't deserve hell!

LOL

Have you ever sinned?

God is SO HOLY... one white lie is a criminal offense against His Holy and eternal nature. Any offense against that which is eternal... is deserving of eternal punishment. That's why God giving up His only Son to be crucified is central to the doctrines of atonement, propitiation, and justification. To say that you don't deserve Hell is like saying that Jesus didn't need to die for you, but it's the thought that counts.

[mfblume]

We cannot come close to being abhorred at the worst sin we can think of in contrast to the extent to which God abhors the least sin.