But Stew, arent you assuming when you say you know he continued to pursue? He may have, but I have not heard that. If he did he is at fault for not following dispatch request. That could result in a charge, though I am not sure dispatch is considered a law enforcement officer.
I'm not understanding the question. He was told to not pursue or confront before any contact was made between the two of them. I think it is pretty clear that he disobeyed that, pursued, and confronted.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
I'm not understanding the question. He was told to not pursue or confront before any contact was made between the two of them. I think it is pretty clear that he disobeyed that, pursued, and confronted.
What law would have been broken? we dont know how far he pursued.
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.
The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
If I was neighborhood watch there would be no reason to get close enough for contact unless a person was being attacked. Even if burglery in progress still not worth confronting, just stay on phone with police from safe distance. Now the millionaire dollar question is what law was broken for following kid and confronting him for what he was up to? I have doubts 911 operators order are lawful orders. Can they tell you to not be in a place that you cab be at lawfully? They were in public place, dumb to get that close but what law did he break?
I heard a neighborhood watch captain say that they were trained to do as much.
I think the question of whether it was a lawful order coming from dispatch is what I would like clarity on as well. Telling someone to not confront somebody is a world of difference from telling them not to be in a public place though.
Whether or not it was a lawful order, if I were the police, I would have a huge problem with someone disregarding the direct instructions of dispatch and creating a shooting situation.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
I heard a neighborhood watch captain say that they were trained to do as much.
I think the question of whether it was a lawful order coming from dispatch is what I would like clarity on as well. Telling someone to not confront somebody is a world of difference from telling them not to be in a public place though.
Whether or not it was a lawful order, if I were the police, I would have a huge problem with someone disregarding the direct instructions of dispatch and creating a shooting situation.
From what I understand he was not even part of neighborhood watch program. Just something he did. Once again I don't know if he actually broke the law by confronting the kid. If I saw a suspicious person in front of my house and I confronted him in street what law did I break?
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.
The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
Last edited by Truthseeker; 03-24-2012 at 05:24 PM.
From what I understand he was not even part of neighborhood watch program. Just something he did. Once again I don't know if he actually broke the law by confronting the kid. If I saw a suspicious person in front of my house and I confronted him in street what law did I break?
To me the problem was
A. He was not at his house. For all he knew he could have been in front of the kid's house.
B. (and the biggie here) He had already done something and called the police. He was told by them to not follow him. He said on the recording that the kid was running away from him.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
To me the problem was
A. He was not at his house. For all he knew he could have been in front of the kid's house.
B. (and the biggie here) He had already done something and called the police. He was told by them to not follow him. He said on the recording that the kid was running away from him.
I wonder if he actually broke a law by following?
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.
The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
Yes, that is something I wonder too. I know that disobeying a lawful order is legal, but I don't know who he was talking to on the phone. I'm not sure if a dispatcher can give a lawful order. I am also not sure if he was talking to a dispatcher. It seems that he called a non-emergency police line, but it was likely a dispatcher on that line as well.
I guess my problem with him having the audacity to follow someone who was not doing anything and then continuing to follow when told not to, stems in large part from the simple fact that I have a black son. Others might not understand this, but I would like to think that he would be able to walk to the store and back unfollowed, unharassed, and frankly undead. I think this guy was way out of line and his actions directly caused the death of a kid and he should not have been able to simply walk away from it...period.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
But Stew, arent you assuming when you say you know he continued to pursue? He may have, but I have not heard that. If he did he is at fault for not following dispatch request. That could result in a charge, though I am not sure dispatch is considered a law enforcement officer.
Following the dispatcher's advice is optional. I don't believe a dispatcher can tell you what to do and what not to do. There was no crime committed in not following the dispatcher's direction. However I'd consider chasing a random person down the street harassment regardless.
My problem is Zimmerman's account of being attacked from behind is not consistent with one witness: the girlfriend.
Zimmerman claimed he got out of the vehicle to look for a street sign and the kid jumped or ran out from nowhere and attacked him from behind.
The girl who was on the phone with Trayvon seconds before the incident suggests that directly before a scuffle took place, Trayvon and Zimmerman exchanged words. Unless Zimmerman was talking to Trayvon with his back turned (which doesn't make any sense to me) the two stories conflict.
The witness that claims that Zimmerman was acting in self-defense claimed Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman. That does not tell us who attacked who, that simply lets us know that regardless of who started it Trayvon got the upper hand. It's very possible Zimmerman started the fight, and just ended up losing. In which case he couldn't claim self-defense because he caused the conflict and in the state of Florida Trayvon doesn't have to retreat he can "stand his ground". Unfortunately we see where that got him.
Quickly and then I'm going to bed because I have to wake up early tomorrow: a problem I have with this witness that just came forward is that he told Zimmerman and Trayvon that he was going to call the police. The police have released 9-11 calls that contain information about what happened that night from other witnesses. None of those 9-11 calls are consistent with this witness' story, nobody called the police and identify themselves as this witness that saw "everything" and I wonder why? Did the witness never get around to calling the police? I've also received word that the FBI is investigating what they believe to be a 9-11 coming from Trayvon Martin in the seconds before the incident occurred.
Last edited by trialedbyfire; 03-24-2012 at 09:08 PM.
Following the dispatcher's advice is optional. I don't believe a dispatcher can tell you what to do and what not to do. There was no crime committed in not following the dispatcher's direction. However I'd consider chasing a random person down the street harassment regardless.
My problem is Zimmerman's account of being attacked from behind is not consistent with one witness: the girlfriend.
Zimmerman claimed he got out of the vehicle to look for a street sign and the kid jumped or ran out from nowhere and attacked him from behind.
The girl who was on the phone with Trayvon seconds before the incident suggests that directly before a scuffle took place, Trayvon and Zimmerman exchanged words. Unless Zimmerman was talking to Trayvon with his back turned (which doesn't make any sense to me) the two stories conflict.
The witness that claims that Zimmerman was acting in self-defense claimed Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman. That does not tell us who attacked who, that simply lets us know that regardless of who started it Trayvon got the upper hand. It's very possible Zimmerman started the fight, and just ended up losing. In which case he couldn't claim self-defense because he caused the conflict and in the state of Florida Trayvon doesn't have to retreat he can "stand his ground". Unfortunately we see where that got him.
Quickly and then I'm going to bed because I have to wake up early tomorrow: a problem I have with this witness that just came forward is that he told Zimmerman and Trayvon that he was going to call the police. The police have released 9-11 calls that contain information about what happened that night from other witnesses. None of those 9-11 calls are consistent with this witness' story, nobody called the police and identify themselves as this witness that saw "everything" and I wonder why? Did the witness never get around to calling the police? I've also received word that the FBI is investigating what they believe to be a 9-11 coming from Trayvon Martin in the seconds before the incident occurred.
The witness did not just come forward... I understand he came forward immediately, and his testimony is in the police report. He/she just does not want to be public at this time.
You must be very well connected to the FBI.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
The witness did not just come forward... I understand he came forward immediately, and his testimony is in the police report. He/she just does not want to be public at this time.
You must be very well connected to the FBI.
No. God-willing maybe one day. Always wanted to be a special agent since I was a kid.
Always wanted to be a special agent since I was a kid.
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