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  #81  
Old 05-20-2014, 12:56 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: The Free Gift of Salvation

I see a difference between fair and just. I admit, it's not fair. But I do believe it is just.
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  #82  
Old 05-20-2014, 01:00 PM
Carl Carl is offline
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Re: The Free Gift of Salvation

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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
It is irrelevant to the question of whether I will be punished or not. That's my point.


The Bible says he does. That's part of your view's hilarity. God wants to save me, and he will save me if he chooses me for salvation, but he may not. In fact, few will be saved. Most of us won't be. Because of God's choice.

Hilarious.





Well, ya got me there. Of course God doesn't have to be just, if he doesn't want to. (Don't even try to claim that your view of how it works is just!)
Well God does have use of his own free will and it just so happens he decided to give us a free will as well. A relationship based on true love would involve some level of freedom to chose to love in return. That doesn't threaten or undermine his sovereignty one bit.
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  #83  
Old 05-20-2014, 05:07 PM
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Re: The Free Gift of Salvation

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
I see a difference between fair and just. I admit, it's not fair. But I do believe it is just.
I deserve to burn.

You deserve to burn.

I will burn.

You won't burn.

And that's justice.

You're hilarious.
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  #84  
Old 05-20-2014, 07:06 PM
shazeep shazeep is offline
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Re: The Free Gift of Salvation

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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
I deserve to burn.

You deserve to burn.

I will burn.

You won't burn.

And that's justice.

You're hilarious.
this position assumes that what is coming out of everyones who is involved mouth is correct, when it is known that we deceive ourselves. none of us is equipped to judge who will and won't 'burn,' and Scripture is quite clear on this. it is death-centric to even approach Christ this way; the completely wrong context, drummed into us by 'church.' you are forgiven when you accept it, which includes forgiving others, thus bringing about an emulation of Christ that no verbal confession can even shadow, i don't think. who says that you will burn? i say that they cannot know this, and completely misunderstand salvation. One cannot accept Christ with their mouth.
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  #85  
Old 05-21-2014, 06:05 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: The Free Gift of Salvation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
I deserve to burn.

You deserve to burn.

I will burn.

You won't burn.

And that's justice.

You're hilarious.
I said that it is "just"... not "justice".

For example, let's say that I have two children. I choose to buy one a tablet and the other a bicycle. They may argue that it's unfair. However, the money is mine to spend as I choose... and frankly, they are entitled to nothing. They are right... it wouldn't be fair. However, it is just.

God's creation is His to do with as He chooses. All blessings are His to grant as He chooses. None of us are entitled to anything. God does as He wills with His creation. So, God chooses an elect remnant to rescue to demonstrate His power, grace, and mercy, in accordance to His will that He might receive glory. They rest... He allows to perish in that they will never choose Him. While we may argue that this isn't fair... it is just.

Justice would demand that everyone suffer eternal Hell.

Last edited by Aquila; 05-21-2014 at 06:07 AM.
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  #86  
Old 05-21-2014, 06:13 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: The Free Gift of Salvation

My son is in the middle of playing with His tablet. Addison, my girlfriend's daughter, doesn't have a tablet. She asks Noah to share. He says, "No, I'm in the middle of a game." She becomes upset and complains, "Noah's not sharing." Noah pipes up, "I'm in the middle of a game!" I tell her, "Honey, it's Noah's tablet and if he doesn't want to share, that is his choice. It is his."

Now, is Noah being fair? Nope. He's not sharing and trying to make everyone feel good. His decision upsets Addison, and understandably so. However, it is his tablet. Allowing Noah to do as he pleases with his property is just.
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  #87  
Old 05-21-2014, 07:00 AM
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Re: The Free Gift of Salvation

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
My son is in the middle of playing with His tablet. Addison, my girlfriend's daughter, doesn't have a tablet. She asks Noah to share. He says, "No, I'm in the middle of a game." She becomes upset and complains, "Noah's not sharing." Noah pipes up, "I'm in the middle of a game!" I tell her, "Honey, it's Noah's tablet and if he doesn't want to share, that is his choice. It is his."

Now, is Noah being fair? Nope. He's not sharing and trying to make everyone feel good. His decision upsets Addison, and understandably so. However, it is his tablet. Allowing Noah to do as he pleases with his property is just.
Worst. Analogy. Ever.
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  #88  
Old 05-21-2014, 07:00 AM
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Re: The Free Gift of Salvation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
I said that it is "just"... not "justice".

For example, let's say that I have two children. I choose to buy one a tablet and the other a bicycle. They may argue that it's unfair. However, the money is mine to spend as I choose... and frankly, they are entitled to nothing. They are right... it wouldn't be fair. However, it is just.

God's creation is His to do with as He chooses. All blessings are His to grant as He chooses. None of us are entitled to anything. God does as He wills with His creation. So, God chooses an elect remnant to rescue to demonstrate His power, grace, and mercy, in accordance to His will that He might receive glory. They rest... He allows to perish in that they will never choose Him. While we may argue that this isn't fair... it is just.

Justice would demand that everyone suffer eternal Hell.
smh
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  #89  
Old 05-21-2014, 07:04 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: The Free Gift of Salvation

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Worst. Analogy. Ever.
Do you have a right to do whatever you wish with what is yours? Is this right just?

Last edited by Aquila; 05-21-2014 at 07:42 AM.
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  #90  
Old 05-21-2014, 08:20 AM
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Re: The Free Gift of Salvation

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Do you have a right to do whatever you wish with what is yours? Is this right just?
It's not an unconditional right, no. I can't use my things to hurt others (without good reason, such as self-defense).

You are trying to use the illustration to show why it is perfectly fine, in your view, for God to select a few humans to spare them the punishment they (in your view) deserve, but go ahead and punish most of us.

If you are trying to show that we "belong" to God and therefor he can do whatever he wants with us, well, yeah, I suppose he could. But it would be beyond bizarre for anyone to expect that capricious and evil being to be worthy of our love and admiration.
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