Tell him you do not want to marry him and do not want to be involved with him at all but do this in a safe place and among witnesses who help you if he attacks you and who could be witnesses in a future trial.
Get out of that church.
File abuse charges with the help of a lawyer.
Get a restraining order against him so he cannot contact you in any way.
Don't beat yourself up for not realizing that his two previously failed marriages should have set off alarms warning you to steer clear of him.
Remember, not all UPC ministers, pastors, and churches are like him, his pastor, and that church.
I didn't want to start a new thread since I'm new to the site, but wanted to find an existing thread to ask for your advice on a problem a friend of mine is enduring.
Recently, a lady friend of mine from back in the high school days of the 1970's reconnected with me and my wife. She attended the same Pentecostal Church I did as children and young teens, and I remembered her well from there and from school.
She recently went through a divorce after 30 plus years married to a profoundly abusive alcoholic, her words, not mine, and has spent the past few years reclaiming and recommitting herself to her family and to her faith.
Last year she started going to a UPC church in our hometown that has had it's share of bad history. The first Pastor was arrested and charged with molestation of the girls in his congregation, but died before he could face trial. The second and current pastor was charged with illegal conversion of church property, but things were settled out of court, and the membership is now split between two churches. So, in my opinion, this is a church with some pretty bad history. I warned her of the problems with the church building, and implored her to continue searching for a church outside the UPC.
She continued going to the church because, in her words, it felt like our old time religion. She had always been active in our old church, singing in the youth choir, and she never missed a service. She's hungry for the word, and wants to find her place in church. I was searching the UPC Church's Facebook site, and saw a man I recognized from the past, and he was one of the Music Ministers in that church. I'm a firm believer in religious conversion, and that Christ can perform miracles and save anyone, but my hackles were raised with this man. I have a personal history with him, and it isn't good.
Over the past year, he's integrated himself into her life. She kept telling him they were friends only, nothing more. But, he came to her this past winter, put down an engagement ring, and declared her to be his fiance, and that they were getting married this spring. He didn't ask her for her hand in marriage, he just stated it like it was a hostile takeover. She was shocked and intimidated. He then posted on his facebook wall that they were engaged, and started friending everyone on her friend's list, to include her daughters and grand daughters. He started yelling at her, threatening her when she didn't wear the ring to church, and started demanding she tell him when she left her apartment, who she saw, and how long she was gone.
She has saved phone messages and texts where he's threatened her with violence should she not respond to him.
She's scared to death, and finds herself in a problem because the church members are now planning her wedding, a wedding she doesn't want, and a marriage she's being bullied into.
I've talked to her and talked to her about the scriptures, but also about Battered Women Syndrome, and the necessary steps she needs to take to rid herself of this ...evil. She's scared to death to tell the pastor of the UPC she's been attending, because he's all for the marriage.
So...men and women of this forum, do you have any advice or observations?
I've prayed about this, rebuked this guy in the name of Jesus, prayed with her, but he will not leave her alone.
He's been married three times, and I find it funny that in the UPC bylaws that they recommend their ministers stay single should they divorce.
Am I missing something? My wife and I are at a loss, and we've implored her to take the necessary steps to protect herself and her daughters, but no matter what she does, he's there.
She needs to go to the police, first and foremost and file a report for harassment. Secondly, she needs to reject him publicly, in front of witnesses that she knows will take her seriously and protect her.
She also needs to go to the pastor and take a friend with her. But not until she files a police report. It sounds like this man is stalking her and he sounds abusive, to put it mildly. I would be scared of someone like that.
Personally, if it were MY friend, I would probably tell the pastor even if she didn't want me to. And if he didn't pay attention, I would email the local presbyter and the district superintendent.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
I took your advice and contacted the Pastor, and in two responses, he's been somewhat dismissive. I don't have a lot of confidence in his objectivity, which is sad. I will say I am impressed with the responses and advice submitted in the forum. I don't know what I was expecting, but it is a nice response.
And yes, I know that not all churches, UPC or otherwise, are similar to this one. Thank you, and God bless you all.
I took your advice and contacted the Pastor, and in two responses, he's been somewhat dismissive. I don't have a lot of confidence in his objectivity, which is sad. I will say I am impressed with the responses and advice submitted in the forum. I don't know what I was expecting, but it is a nice response.
And yes, I know that not all churches, UPC or otherwise, are similar to this one. Thank you, and God bless you all.
Since Christy posted unwanted solicitation, I got to read what davidgene posted.
I am wondering how all of this played out. If there has been a solution to this problem.
I am horrified that somebody can be bullied in this day and age.
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It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (Psalms 118:8)
If no one thinks that women are not persecuted in SOME churches, they need to open their eyes.
How many thousands of sermons have been preached about women’s hair, clothing, jewelry, make- up, usually calling them Jezebel if they don’t follow the Pastors convictions. And believe me, I thought the Pastors were right for many, many years, and followed their instructions.
We even, in the church I grew up in, had a split, over one of the preacher’s wife, wearing toeless shoes. How foolish. Never mind that Jesus wore sandals.
And the first Post was correct. Jesus and the Early Church were free from this kind of foolishness. Jesus set women free. There is neither, male nor female, in the Church, in God’s eyes. He sees our heart. It was the infiltration of the RCC that destroyed women’s liberty. And then in these last days, when God poured out the Later Rain, it was the infiltration of “holiness groups” that joined the church, and again, took women’s liberty. Holiness is not on the outward appearance. Holiness comes from the heart.
Did God blame Eve, more than Adam for the fall? NO?
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
I was raised as a "Southern Belle". A woman was to know her place and speak cautiously. I do not still practice all of the requirements of the charm school I was sent to, but I do remember them. How to sit, how to enunciate, which fork to use and so on and so forth. There is no particular term for southern men. A man is to be a man.
Even in our own nations history, women had to fight for the right to vote. This in and of itself shows how far the early philosophies regarding women as second rate citizens really go.
Scripture states "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord." Ephesians 5:22. However, it does not state that women are to submit to all men.
As far as the Catholicism reference to priests goes, this is a pagan religion, so no comparison should be made to us at all, whether it be priest or nun.
Calling all women "Eve" is ridiculous. She was created and not born. Men and women alike are born with a sinful nature. She was sinless up until the point of taking of the fruit. They both knew the command they had been given and they both chose to break it.
Had sin been entirely Eve's fault, she would have been the only one punished and mercy would have been given to Adam. They were both naive and had never had to choose between good and evil. They knew no evil. They only knew they were not to eat of the tree.
Who else had they ever spoken to? God and then one day, Satan. It wasn't as if there were believers and non-believers living in the garden. Woman was created to be a companion to man. A man's nature is different then a woman's, because if it were not, they would not be compatible mates and enjoy this necessary companionship. Women trust first and deal with the mess they find themselves in later, which is much the opposite of men. Women also have a persuasive nature that all men do not have. To man, most is black and white, while women fill in the more gray portions.
Have you ever been persuaded by a woman to change your mind about something? If not, you are either completely closed minded or very lonely.
Women are celebrated throughout the Bible for their ability to be sensitive to the spirit, being extremely loyal and planting seeds of faith in rearing their children. Why were women first to see that Jesus was not in the grave? The men didn't even go. God does not see women as a lesser quality human.
As far as the "beaten down Apostolic woman", she does exist. Many Apostolic women are forced to sew their own clothing while their husbands wear expensive suits. Many Apostolic preachers still blame women for the original sin and stifle their God given talents which seems to allow more men to utilize their talents. In my last church, my preachers belief was that if he came home from work and was tired, his wife should anticipate this and immediately drop everything to wash and rub his feet. Never mind the children running all over the house or dinner burning on the stove.
I know the thread was started by a woman who felt lead to share her thoughts, her study and her experience.
If you, Coonskinner, can even make the statement that there is a stereotype of beaten down Apostolic women, there must be many out there that have truly been beaten down. You are judging women that have been degraded and have a story to tell. "Let ye who are without sin, cast the first stone."
Maybe it is time for you to put your sack of rocks down.
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The Father is God in relationship.
The Son is God in flesh
The Holy Spirit is God is spiritual action.
You know...I am positive there are women being persecuted in some churches, but all I know is my experience and what I have seen. I've been to many churches in Ohio. I've been to WV and MIch to preach, Texas too. I've visited in Mississippi. I gone to conferences in many places. I've been to biog churches and small churches. I have not seen any truly persecuted women and I haven't heard any of the nonsensical stuff som eof you act like is just the norm. I've never hearda preacher say a woman should drop everythign to rub his feet or be treated like his slave.
YOu know what I have seen OVER AND OVER in many many places? Women who wouldn't know godly submission and a humble spirit if it fell on their face and danced a jig. Women who treat their husbands like idiots and act like since they allow their husbands to sleep with them, that man should just shut up and be happy no matter how she acts or treats him. Women who Dress the standrad to a "T" but have foul spirits and are complete man-haters with a rebellious chip on their shoulder that hat ethat they are commanded to honor and obey a man.
I'm sure there are women who are treated terribly in the church, but I see far more women who have a foul spirit towards men and authority due to accepting the notion of this wicked generation.
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