2 Cor 12:2

[OneAccord]

2Cor 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Was Paul referring to himself? If so, how do we know that?

Was he referring to some one else? If so, who (if that is known)?

Was he referring to Jesus at His Acsension?

Did Paul know this man? Or was it a vision? Or did he even know if it was real or a vision?

What is the 3rd Heaven?

And finally, the number 14? its significance in the Scriptures? Mentioned 24 times.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

2Cor 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Was Paul referring to himself? If so, how do we know that?

Was he referring to some one else? If so, who (if that is known)?

Was he referring to Jesus at His Acsension?

Did Paul know this man? Or was it a vision? Or did he even know if it was real or a vision?

What is the 3rd Heaven?

And finally, the number 14? its significance in the Scriptures? Mentioned 24 times.

I believe Paul was speaking about himself because of verse 1.

II Cor 12:1 "It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord."

The third heaven, for the Jew, was Paradise (Rev 2:7) with God. Much like when we are caught up in the spirit, IMO.

I read, somewhere, that the Jewish people interpret that as - the first heaven is earth, the second heaven is the universe and the third heaven is paradise with God.

I don't know what the 14 years meant. Haven't seen that commented on anywhere. How long had he been surviving the Lord at the point of this writing?

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

How long had he been surviving the Lord at the point of this writing?

Hey, I ask the questions here, 'cause I'm as dumb as a box of rocks on this passage. But, you have given me a basis for study. Thank ya, thank ya very much.

[chseeads]

I've heard the theory that it was Paul himself he was talking about, and that perhaps it could have been the occasion on which he was stoned and they thought he was dead at which this catching up to the third heaven occurred.

I don't know any of the timline on that as to how it would or wouldn't pan out to possibly be accurate.

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by chseeads

I've heard the theory that it was Paul himself he was talking about, and that perhaps it could have been the occasion on which he was stoned and they thought he was dead at which this catching up to the third heaven occurred.

I don't know any of the timline on that as to how it would or wouldn't pan out to possibly be accurate.

Thanks "Cheezy". Could be, still waiting on the "scholars". Wheres Pethasis when you need him? I know thats not spelled right, but its his fault for using a name I can't spell.

Might be in Hoosierland this weekend. Got room for a "non-conservative" visitor?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

...
I don't know what the 14 years meant. Haven't seen that commented on anywhere. How long had he been surviving the Lord at the point of this writing?

2 Corinthians is considered to have been written in the February/March period of AD 56 while in the city of Philippi in Macedonia as recorded in Acts 20:1.

The conversion of Paul outside the city of Damascus as recorded in Acts 9:1-8 is considered to have happened on January 25, AD 32.

The timing of the event of 2 Cor 12:2 is not pinpointed exactly but happened "14 years ago" which would have been some time in late AD 41 to early AD 42.

Paul's first missionary journey from Antioch was during the period of March AD 47 to August AD 49 (Ref Acts 13:1-14:27). So the timing of his stoning at Lystra recorded in Acts 14:8-20 does not fit into that time frame of "14 years ago."

There are gaps in the story of Paul's life in the record and the incident referenced in 2 Cor 12:2 falls into one of them. After his conversion in early AD 32 Paul began to preach in the Damascus area (Acts 9:19-22) right after his Spirit and water baptism. "After many days" he escaped Damascus when his life was threatened (Acts 9:23-25, 2 Corinthians 11:32-33).

After this he may have been in Arabia for 3 years (Galatians 1:15-17) and returned to Damascus. It could be that this was the time when he escaped from Damascus to save his life as recorded in Acts 9:23-25 and 2 Cor 11:32-33).

Acts 9:26 speaks about Paul coming to Jerusalem, the disciples there being afraid of him, Barnabas speaking up for him to the leaders, (Peter and James) and being there for a while and leaving for Caesarea and on to Tarsus because the Greek speaking Jews wanted to kill him (Acts 9:26-30) After this the churches in Judea, Samaria and Galilee had "rest" or a time of peace (Acts 9:31) This was some time in AD 35 or 36 and is also spoken of in Galatians 1:18-19 where he said that "after three years" ( 3 years after his conversion?) he went to Jerusalem.

Acts 11:19 speaks of some who went to Antioch and preached to Jews (Jews by birth and Jews by conversion) only but some from Cyprus and Cyrene came to Antioch and preached to Gentiles who had not previously converted to Judaism (Acts 11:20-21). This was probably in AD 42. When the leadership at the Jerusalem church heard about this they sent Barnabas to check it out. He was pleased that Gentiles were coming to the Lord and encouraged them to continue on (Acts 11:22-24). Barnabas then went to Tarsus to bring Saul to Antioch since Saul's ministry was supposed to be with the Gentiles (Acts 11:25-26). The reason he went to Tarsus was because that was where Saul headed in AD 35/36 when he left Jerusalem (Acts 9:30). It is recorded that Saul was there in the Antioch church for a year (Acts 11:25-26) which was probably all of AD 43.

Then some prophets came down from Jerusalem. One of them was named Agabus who prophesied of a coming famine (Acts 11:27-28). This would have been after AD 43 but could have been in AD 44.

There was a poor harvest in AD 45 and the crops failed in AD 46 and there was a famine. Saul, Barnabas and Titus were sent to Jerusalem with a contribution for the saints in Jerusalem (Acts 11:29-30). This is also recorded in Galatians 2:1-10 and happened in AD 46 (14 years after his conversion in AD 32). Titus, a gentile was not required by the Jerusalem elders to be circumcised. Paul said he went up "by revelation" which may be a reference to the prophecy given by Agabus about the famine. Here Paul and Barnabas were given the right hand of fellowship and told to go to the Gentiles and not forget the poor. We assume that Paul returned to his gentile ministry in Antioch and that's where we find him in the spring of AD 47 when he sets out with Barnabas on his first missionary journey (Acts 13:1-3)

So, after all that rambling and dates, we don't have a historical record of when and where and how Paul received the experience/revelation of 2 Cor 12:2. If it was in the AD 41/42 time frame (14 years before he wrote 2 Corinthians) it was after he left Jerusalem in AD 35/36 (Acts 9:30) and when Barnabas brought him to Antioch in AD 42 or possibly early AD 43 (Acts 11:25-26)

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Sam

2 Corinthians is considered to have been written in the February/March period of AD 56 while in the city of Philippi in Macedonia as recorded in Acts 20:1.

The conversion of Paul outside the city of Damascus as recorded in Acts 9:1-8 is considered to have happened on January 25, AD 32.

The timing of the event of 2 Cor 12:2 is not pinpointed exactly but happened "14 years ago" which would have been some time in late AD 41 to early AD 42.

Paul's first missionary journey from Antioch was during the period of March AD 47 to August AD 49 (Ref Acts 13:1-14:27). So the timing of his stoning at Lystra recorded in Acts 14:8-20 does not fit into that time frame of "14 years ago."

There are gaps in the story of Paul's life in the record and the incident referenced in 2 Cor 12:2 falls into one of them. After his conversion in early AD 32 Paul began to preach in the Damascus area (Acts 9:19-22) right after his Spirit and water baptism. "After many days" he escaped Damascus when his life was threatened (Acts 9:23-25, 2 Corinthians 11:32-33).

After this he may have been in Arabia for 3 years (Galatians 1:15-17) and returned to Damascus. It could be that this was the time when he escaped from Damascus to save his life as recorded in Acts 9:23-25 and 2 Cor 11:32-33).

Acts 9:26 speaks about Paul coming to Jerusalem, the disciples there being afraid of him, Barnabas speaking up for him to the leaders, (Peter and James) and being there for a while and leaving for Caesarea and on to Tarsus because the Greek speaking Jews wanted to kill him (Acts 9:26-30) After this the churches in Judea, Samaria and Galilee had "rest" or a time of peace (Acts 9:31) This was some time in AD 35 or 36 and is also spoken of in Galatians 1:18-19 where he said that "after three years" ( 3 years after his conversion?) he went to Jerusalem.

Acts 11:19 speaks of some who went to Antioch and preached to Jews (Jews by birth and Jews by conversion) only but some from Cyprus and Cyrene came to Antioch and preached to Gentiles who had not previously converted to Judaism (Acts 11:20-21). This was probably in AD 42. When the leadership at the Jerusalem church heard about this they sent Barnabas to check it out. He was pleased that Gentiles were coming to the Lord and encouraged them to continue on (Acts 11:22-24). Barnabas then went to Tarsus to bring Saul to Antioch since Saul's ministry was supposed to be with the Gentiles (Acts 11:25-26). The reason he went to Tarsus was because that was where Saul headed in AD 35/36 when he left Jerusalem (Acts 9:30). It is recorded that Saul was there in the Antioch church for a year (Acts 11:25-26) which was probably all of AD 43.

Then some prophets came down from Jerusalem. One of them was named Agabus who prophesied of a coming famine (Acts 11:27-28). This would have been after AD 43 but could have been in AD 44.

There was a poor harvest in AD 45 and the crops failed in AD 46 and there was a famine. Saul, Barnabas and Titus were sent to Jerusalem with a contribution for the saints in Jerusalem (Acts 11:29-30). This is also recorded in Galatians 2:1-10 and happened in AD 46 (14 years after his conversion in AD 32). Titus, a gentile was not required by the Jerusalem elders to be circumcised. Paul said he went up "by revelation" which may be a reference to the prophecy given by Agabus about the famine. Here Paul and Barnabas were given the right hand of fellowship and told to go to the Gentiles and not forget the poor. We assume that Paul returned to his gentile ministry in Antioch and that's where we find him in the spring of AD 47 when he sets out with Barnabas on his first missionary journey (Acts 13:1-3)

So, after all that rambling and dates, we don't have a historical record of when and where and how Paul received the experience/revelation of 2 Cor 12:2. If it was in the AD 41/42 time frame (14 years before he wrote 2 Corinthians) it was after he left Jerusalem in AD 35/36 (Acts 9:30) and when Barnabas brought him to Antioch in AD 42 or possibly early AD 43 (Acts 11:25-26)

Thanks, SAM! I'll have to read that a few times to get a grasp on the time line! lol