Jesus Deity: Something New

Michael The Disciple · #1 05-13-2009, 07:21 PM

I have noticed something new at least to me.

In these two scripture portions:

6: For many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and shall deceive many. Mark 13:6

8: And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am {Christ}; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them. Luke 21:8

In my Bible the word CHRIST is in italics as if it inserted by the translator.

If that be true Jesus is calling himself the I AM here.

Now the mystery deepens. Matthew writes:

5: For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Matt. 24:5

In this gospel the word CHRIST is not in italics. Indicating it indeed should appear in the text.

What is the reconciliation here?

Are we to take CHRIST to be synonomous with I AM?

Yes on the basis of John 8:58 I have believed Jesus is the I AM for many years. But the wording in Mark and Luke have somehow escaped my attention till now.

Would anyone agree that Matthew 24:5 would equate the term Christ with I AM by comparing it with Mark 13:6 and Luke 21:5?

Sam · #2 05-13-2009, 10:17 PM

Jesus calls Himself "I AM" in several places where the KJV says, "I am he."
In the Greek these say, "Ego eimi" or "I am"
John 4:26
John 8:24, 28, 58
John 13:19
John 18:5, 6, 8

Praxeas · #3 05-13-2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I have noticed something new at least to me.

In these two scripture portions:

6: For many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and shall deceive many. Mark 13:6

8: And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am {Christ}; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them. Luke 21:8

In my Bible the word CHRIST is in italics as if it inserted by the translator.

If that be true Jesus is calling himself the I AM here.

Now the mystery deepens. Matthew writes:

5: For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Matt. 24:5

In this gospel the word CHRIST is not in italics. Indicating it indeed should appear in the text.

What is the reconciliation here?

Are we to take CHRIST to be synonomous with I AM?

Yes on the basis of John 8:58 I have believed Jesus is the I AM for many years. But the wording in Mark and Luke have somehow escaped my attention till now.

Would anyone agree that Matthew 24:5 would equate the term Christ with I AM by comparing it with Mark 13:6 and Luke 21:5?

This is not necessarily the case. Scholars have recognized that the intent is "I am he" or "I am him"...

Paul said "I am what I am" does that make Him God?
1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me.

Here "Christ" is in the greek
Mat 24:5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray.

This is why, of course, translators included the word "Christ".

Are they synonymous? Can't be. If so then David was God for he too was called messiah, meaning anointed.

And to be anointed is of course to have been anointed by someone. But God is the anointer. Who anointed God?

TulsaDavid · #4 05-13-2009, 11:07 PM

Interesting find, MtD. In Mat 24:5, ο χριστος (the Christ) is there within the verse, but in both Mark 13:6 and Luke 21:5, it is left out, leaving an implied "I am [the Christ]."

Since "ο χριστος" can simply mean "the anointed", and since these people are already coming in His name (and not their own), I've been less inclined to think they were advocating that they were the messiah, but rather that they would claim to be "the anointed" person who is working in His name, but in truth be deceivers. Jesus warned there would be many of these, and considering how often "many" and "few" are scripturally understated, that seems to have happened to "many" throughout the history of Christendom, IMO.

Praxeas · #5 05-14-2009, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TulsaDavid

Interesting find, MtD. In Mat 24:5, ο χριστος (the Christ) is there within the verse, but in both Mark 13:6 and Luke 21:5, it is left out, leaving an implied "I am [the Christ]."

Since "ο χριστος" can simply mean "the anointed", and since these people are already coming in His name (and not their own), I've been less inclined to think they were advocating that they were the messiah, but rather that they would claim to be "the anointed" person who is working in His name, but in truth be deceivers. Jesus warned there would be many of these, and considering how often "many" and "few" are scripturally understated, that seems to have happened to "many" throughout the history of Christendom, IMO.

Im not sure about that. "ho Christos" seems to be a proper noun for Jesus as opposed to being "anointed'...I think if it was in the way you put it it would instead be something like "the anointed servant of Christ".

Instead perhaps they claim to come in Christ's name and that the are anointed of God, like a lot of preachers or false prophets claim today "I am anointed, follow me", not that "I am THE anointed follow me", though they claim that too.

But this hails back to Mat 7
Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

TulsaDavid · #6 05-15-2009, 10:46 AM

Pretty much what I was saying.

Michael The Disciple · #7 05-15-2009, 01:46 PM

So I guess when anyone who had the gospel of Luke but not the gospel of Matthew read this:

8: And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them. Luke 21:8

They thought nothing of it?

Rather they thought within themselves "Oh he must have MEANT to write "the Messiah" after I AM but forgot!

TulsaDavid · #8 05-15-2009, 04:07 PM

The "Messiah" interpretation has come from many a pulpit many times. But so has a more rightly divided interpretation.

And when you think upon history, there have indeed been grand deceptions from men claiming to have the anointing, as well as men claiming to have papal supremacy over scripture. Kinda fulfills both interpretations, not perfectly, but in a way, eh?

Praxeas · #9 05-15-2009, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So I guess when anyone who had the gospel of Luke but not the gospel of Matthew read this:

8: And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them. Luke 21:8

They thought nothing of it?

Rather they thought within themselves "Oh he must have MEANT to write "the Messiah" after I AM but forgot!

What difference does it make what if anything they thought? Maybe they were not disparate to prove the Deity of Christ and just read the word for what it would bless them Spiritually.

BTW is Matthew wrong? Did he lie?

BTW why not say "many shall come in my name saying "I am The I AM"? Saying "many shall come in my name saying I am" sounds like an incomplete sentence..I am what?

If the intent was to say "I am God" why not say "I am I AM" or "I Am the I AM"?

Since "I AM" is also supposed to be a Divine name, there should be a definite article in front of it.

TulsaDavid · #10 05-15-2009, 08:38 PM

How 'bout this slant: The Greek has no punctuations, so what if the "I am Christ" would have NOT been in double quotes. In other words, could Jesus have been saying:

For many shall come in my name, saying I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Suggested interpretation: Many shall come, and although they will confess that I, Jesus, am indeed the Christ, nevertheless, despite their confession of me, they will deceive many.