The mistake of Religion

Godsdrummer · #1 08-13-2009, 07:41 AM

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

What do we do if find through study that what you have always believed was not right but was mistranslation of scripture based more on tradition and mans conjecture?

This is what happened to me several years ago. There were several tenants of faith and doctrines I was taught, and even preached, that from the point of veiw I had, seemed to be the word of God. I was brought to a point where I had to question, for my own understanding several of these doctrines. What I found upon careful study was that many things were not as they seemed.

KWSS1976 · #2 08-13-2009, 08:00 AM

Religion as in Baptist,Pentecostal,Catholic,Methodist,etc,etc,etc are all man made they did not have all this in the bible..In the bible they went around preaching about Jesus and all he done also the death,burial,ressurection of Jesus. I really if Jesus was to come down he would laugh at us and how we have twisted things up with our man made ways

Monterrey · #3 08-13-2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

What do we do if find through study that what you have always believed was not right but was mistranslation of scripture based more on tradition and mans conjecture?

This is what happened to me several years ago. There were several tenants of faith and doctrines I was taught, and even preached, that from the point of veiw I had, seemed to be the word of God. I was brought to a point where I had to question, for my own understanding several of these doctrines. What I found upon careful study was that many things were not as they seemed.

Do you feel like you have enough liberty to talk of some of the doctrines you questioned? I believe that you are not alone in your position.

Just curious,

M.

*AQuietPlace* · #4 08-13-2009, 08:14 AM

Monterey, do you mind if I ask a question of you? I hope it's not too much of a hijack, it's just something I was curious about.

In the tithing thread, you mentioned that you believe that a NT doctrine should always have an OT basis. So I was curious what you personally believe about women cutting their hair. If you believe that I Cor. teaches against it, where would you find that basis in the OT?

That's the first thing that made me question the non-cut hair doctrine..... the fact that I could find no support for that anywhere else in the entire Bible.

Just curious about your position on it. If you don't want to discuss it, no problem.

Monterrey · #5 08-13-2009, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Religion as in Baptist,Pentecostal,Catholic,Methodist,etc,etc,etc are all man made they did not have all this in the bible..In the bible they went around preaching about Jesus and all he done also the death,burial,ressurection of Jesus. I really if Jesus was to come down he would laugh at us and how we have twisted things up with our man made ways

Actually, they did have religions in the Bible, just not for the Christians.

The Sadducees and Pharisees were what we called denominations.

I was studying Gal 5. It mentions heresies as a work of the flesh.

Look at the word heresies.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Strongs describes this word as....

G139
αἵρεσις
hairesis
hah'ee-res-is
From G138; properly a choice, that is, (specifically) a party or (abstractly) disunion. (“heresy” is the Greek word itself.): - heresy [which is the Greekord itself], sect.

It comes from G138

G138
αἱρέομαι
aihreomai
hahee-reh'-om-ahee
Probably akin to G142; to take for oneself, that is, to prefer.

G142
αἴρω
airō
ah'ee-ro
A primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away; figuratively to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); specifically to sail away (that is, weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare [H5375]) to expiate sin: - away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).

None of these were what we had been taught about heresy. False doctrine and etc. So I began to search deeper.

All of the verses regarding this use of the word was dealing with different SECTS existing at that time.

Act 5:17 Then the high priest rose up, and all they that were with him, (which is the sectG139 of the Sadducees,) and were filled with indignation,

Act 26:5 Which knew me from the beginning, if they would testify, that after the most straitest sectG139 of our religion I lived a Pharisee.

I looked at some of the commentators and this is what some said about Heresies.

Gill says...

heresies; bad principles and tenets, relating to doctrine, which are subversive of the fundamentals of the Gospel and the Christian religion; and are the produce of a man's own invention, and the matter of his choice, without any foundation in the word of God; and these are works of the flesh, for they spring from a corrupt and carnal mind, and are propagated with carnal views, as popular applause, worldly advantage, and indulging the lusts of the flesh.

Jamesion Fausset and Brown says...

heresies — as to sacred things (see on 1Co_11:19). Self-constituted parties; from a Greek root, to choose. A schism is a more recent split in a congregation from a difference of opinion. Heresy is a schism become inveterate [Augustine, Con. Crescon. Don., 2, 7].

So it appears to me that Heresy is when division comes over a point of doctrine to the place where a scism begins to form two or more parties, thus making a new body, ie denomination!

What say you?

M.

Monterrey · #6 08-13-2009, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Monterey, do you mind if I ask a question of you? I hope it's not too much of a hijack, it's just something I was curious about.

In the tithing thread, you mentioned that you believe that a NT doctrine should always have an OT basis. So I was curious what you personally believe about women cutting their hair. If you believe that I Cor. teaches against it, where would you find that basis in the OT?

That's the first thing that made me question the non-cut hair doctrine..... the fact that I could find no support for that anywhere else in the entire Bible.

Just curious about your position on it. If you don't want to discuss it, no problem.

Good question, one which I will strive to answer. Give me a little time.

M

Godsdrummer · #7 08-13-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monterrey

Do you feel like you have enough liberty to talk of some of the doctrines you questioned? I believe that you are not alone in your position.

Just curious,

M.

I have not problem talking about the doctrines I questioned, They caused me to leave the organization I was raised in to go nondenominational. For I find that if the church denomination I was raised in taught things that were not in scripture but mans own interpretation. Then what is the differance of some one that does not understand the oneness as we see it but everything else is right. I chose to go to church where they believed more closer to what I believed. I have been able to see in the last several years that everyone else does have the spirit of God even though they may have differance of opinion on some subjects.

Jeffrey · #8 08-13-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

I have not problem talking about the doctrines I questioned, They caused me to leave the organization I was raised in to go nondenominational. For I find that if the church denomination I was raised in taught things that were not in scripture but mans own interpretation. Then what is the differance of some one that does not understand the oneness as we see it but everything else is right. I chose to go to church where they believed more closer to what I believed. I have been able to see in the last several years that everyone else does have the spirit of God even though they may have differance of opinion on some subjects.

When do we receive the Spirit of God?

Godsdrummer · #9 08-13-2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Monterey, do you mind if I ask a question of you? I hope it's not too much of a hijack, it's just something I was curious about.

In the tithing thread, you mentioned that you believe that a NT doctrine should always have an OT basis. So I was curious what you personally believe about women cutting their hair. If you believe that I Cor. teaches against it, where would you find that basis in the OT?

That's the first thing that made me question the non-cut hair doctrine..... the fact that I could find no support for that anywhere else in the entire Bible.

Just curious about your position on it. If you don't want to discuss it, no problem.

AquietPlace

Just to let you know this was one of the things I studied, my conclusion was that Paul was dealing with a custom of his day. My understanding of some of Pauls teachings were that he did in fact instruct churches concerning the way we should react to customs. We do not want to present ourselves in a negative light to the world. In his day it was a shame for a women to have cut hair and to have her head uncovered when she was in public. Therefore if it is a shame for a women to be shaven or shorn let her be covered. In our society it is no longer a shame for a women to be shorn. So it is no longer a issue for a women to cut her hair. So long as she is in submision to her head, her husband or father. Of course this does not give the man a macho authority either. We need to understand what God ment by submision of women to man. Sorry if I came in on your discusion with Montery but I could not help myself.

Godsdrummer · #10 08-13-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

When do we receive the Spirit of God?

For the most part when ones repents to the point that God can come into your life and make a change. Most people will speak in tongues as initial evidence, but speaking in tongues in no way prove one has the spirit of God. Jesus said they shall know you by you love one for another. And Paul says we will manifest the fruit of the spirit. If no fruit of the spirit no holy ghost, fruit of the spirit I would say one has the spirit of God with in. I have known many in Apostolic onenes that wer told they did not have the spirit of God because they did not speak in tongues yet they manifested the fruit of the spirit after repentance more that the ones that told them they did not have the spirit.