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  #1  
Old 12-18-2009, 09:09 PM
willvan willvan is offline
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Wanted--PCI Type Books

Can anyone help me locate the following books/literature referenced in Thomas Fudge’s book (Christianity Without the Cross ) ? I have done all the standard internet and bookstore searches that I can think of, knowing that they are long out of print and not available through the usual bookstores.
Thanks, Will

In the Service of the King : The Autobiography of W.E. Kidson
The Agreement of the Spirit and the Water and the Blood : John Paterson
My first Fifty years in Pentecost: A.D. VanHoose
Jehovah-Jesus by C.H. Yadon
The Phenomenon of Pentecost: A History of the Latter Rain : Frank Ewart--Edited by W.E. Kidson (1947 Edition)
Issues of the Apostolic Herald (Publication of the Pentecostal Church Incorporated)
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  #2  
Old 12-18-2009, 09:10 PM
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Re: Wanted--PCI Type Books

You would have to go to the UPCI historical society in Hazelwood to get most of them.

It would be a cool thing if they ever digitized the older works to preserve them against time.
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Old 12-18-2009, 09:12 PM
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Re: Wanted--PCI Type Books

Quote:
Originally Posted by willvan View Post
Can anyone help me locate the following books/literature referenced in Thomas Fudge’s book (Christianity Without the Cross ) ? I have done all the standard internet and bookstore searches that I can think of, knowing that they are long out of print and not available through the usual bookstores.
Thanks, Will

In the Service of the King : The Autobiography of W.E. Kidson
The Agreement of the Spirit and the Water and the Blood : John Paterson
My first Fifty years in Pentecost: A.D. VanHoose
Jehovah-Jesus by C.H. Yadon
The Phenomenon of Pentecost: A History of the Latter Rain : Frank Ewart--Edited by W.E. Kidson (1947 Edition)

Issues of the Apostolic Herald (Publication of the Pentecostal Church Incorporated)
I have those two... oh, guess not the original 1947 version...

Sam, who posts here, may be your best resource.
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Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945

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Old 12-18-2009, 11:22 PM
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Re: Wanted--PCI Type Books

Quote:
Originally Posted by willvan View Post
Can anyone help me locate the following books/literature referenced in Thomas Fudge’s book (Christianity Without the Cross ) ? I have done all the standard internet and bookstore searches that I can think of, knowing that they are long out of print and not available through the usual bookstores.
Thanks, Will

In the Service of the King : The Autobiography of W.E. Kidson
The Agreement of the Spirit and the Water and the Blood : John Paterson
My first Fifty years in Pentecost: A.D. VanHoose
Jehovah-Jesus by C.H. Yadon
The Phenomenon of Pentecost: A History of the Latter Rain : Frank Ewart--Edited by W.E. Kidson (1947 Edition)
Issues of the Apostolic Herald (Publication of the Pentecostal Church Incorporated)
The only one of those I have is an old very worn copy of Bro. Ewart's book. I don't know how or where to get some of that old stuff. I have tried Amazon.com and eBay for the Yadon book unsuccessfully.

A while back I asked about the Yadon book and someone thought that one of C.H. Yadon's children or relatives was considering republishing it but I've never heard any more about that.

Someone on here sent Bro. Epley a copy of a biography on Bro. Kidson but I can't remember who it was and if he would make copies available for others.

That's a part of our Apostolic heritage that has been revised out of our literature.
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  #5  
Old 12-18-2009, 11:58 PM
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Re: Wanted--PCI Type Books

Before I saw the request for the older books I read an old post from a couple of years ago that I will post below. It saddens me to think of how an organization founded upon tolerance and respect for doctrinal differences has degenerated to the place where it is today and how certain aspects of its history have been removed and hidden.

Here is the two year old post:

I for one am a little weary of the attempts by some on the forum who claim heritage w/ the original PAJCers and 3 steppers of yesteryear.

Yet, I am thankful for internet forums that allow truth to be spoken.

For about 2 to 3 generations, we know that men of diverse beliefs on the idea of New Birth tried to fellowship and co-exist under a noble experiment and failed primarily when they were forced to leave the UPCI in the 1990's.

Although the same Fundamental Doctrine that asked both sides to not contend for the disunity of the faith ... and is touted by today's posers as part of the AS that ALL MINISTERS MUST ADHERE TO ... was ignored by hate-filled radicals, almost from the fellowship's inception, and by those who have remained in this presently waning fellowship.

Yes, the merger sought to unite a group of primarily white Oneness preachers under Acts 2:38. The fact is the only thing these men had in common was their shared belief of the Godhead and performing baptism in Jesus name. As to the significance of Acts 2:38 and the New Birth they differed greatly.

Shamefully, today those who rewrite and skew our history leave out important components of our shared Apostolic Oneness history while lifting the banner of our Acts 2:38 heritage.

As a person who was raised in the Oneness Apostolic movement I know the emphasis put on the idea of Heritage ...

it is a value reified by the culture.

It is harped on from pulpits ... it is a central theme of many conferences ... and is a focal point of a lot of the literature I've read since my childhood.

History is presented as to scaffold this value of 3-step Holiness Apostolic heritage and used to validate their existence and the extra-biblical truths held by many.

Just early this year, A Mangun stepped up before those at BOTT 2007 ... making his famous/infamous remarks in support of television advertising ... and as part of his presentation he sought to use photos of his dad ... and persuaded the crowd that he was still TRUE TO HIS HERITAGE.

The heritage badge is arrogantly worn by the radicalized Ultracon zealots who use snippets of skewed history to validate their heritage and make themselves victims of the schism of the early Pentecostal movement called the "New Issue".

Today's PCI Oneness Apostolic compromisers and charismatics are belittled as not being true or embarrassed of their heritage ... and even MUSH.

What is bothersome and disingenous in all of this is that those who glorify and champion their heritage ... while playing the victim and stating they monopolize ALL TRUTH ....

fail to realize that in their zeal to revise history books AND present the truth... they are the one's not true to the heritage ... our history truly reveals.

The truth is ... that the early Oneness pioneer GIANTS like Haywood, Urshan, Goss, Clyde Haney ... and most others never considered Trinitarians as lost ... fellowshipped with them regularly ... preached in their events and had them preach in their own.

Facts show that PCI men like Goss and Small even started fellowships w/ Trinitarians in an effort to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as evident w/ the early formation of the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada.

Even the General Assemblies, circa 1918, here in the States allow for Trinitarians and Oneness believers to shortly co-exist with the New Issue not being a centerpoint.

Yet, by 1925-30 ... and attempt to create solely Oneness Apostolic entities was marked by some success but also fragmentation and division ... the latter is still w/ us today.

Apostolic whites and blacks chose to divide over racial lines.

When the UPCI formed the real radical zealot 3 -steppers stayed w/ the real PAJC as not to fellowship w/ those "weak on doctrine"

Even from the onset of the UPCI merger, criticisms abounded when Goss, a one-stepper took office as the first General Supt. of the newly formed UPCI the radicals chose to take him out of office because of his "weakness" ... succeeding in the early 50's. This is the same one-stepping Howard Goss, that believed BAPTISTS WERE SAVED.

The org continued to remain somewhat unified throughout the 50's to 70's suffering various schisms ... and then the radical zealots rose up again in the 1970's when questions of which New Birth doctrine was being preached overseas, namely Colombia, and add demand the addition of "for the remission of sins" to the Fundamental Doctrine.

In 1990, the 3 step radicals finally succeeded in doing away w/ the one steppers w/ the passing of the Westburg resolution and the institution of the Affirmation Statement.

Those of the Oneness 1 step persuasion realized that co-existence w/ a group that seek disfellowship rather than fellowship were shown the door ....

With the post AS schism of the 1990's, many of these 2cd/3rd generation one-stepping Apostolics had no problems joining w/ Trinitarians in fellowships like Global Network. Why? Because they realized that most of the radicalized 3 steppers would never consider them as truly brethren.
The facts are plain ... 2cd and 3rd generation PCIers, especially from Ten. and Canada can tell you ... the stories of what really happened during the noble failed experiment. Once again, history paints a truly different picture than those zealouts who are far removed from the hetitage of the past.

Today the new "Heritage" posers claim unity in purpose and direction w/ the PCIers and PAJCers of the past... yet they still seek to disfellowship and berate their views and doctrine TODAY.

Ironically, today this spirit of disunity has ripped the UPCI again. The very AS that sought doctrinal purity is pushing the ultra-radicals out.

In conclusion, facts show that the early PCIers and PAJCers had very different views with those who will not consider Trinitarians as saved and will not fellowship w/ those who look, dress, act and believe like them.

This is in sharp contrast, several generations later. ... of a radicalized element within our Oneness ranks that through propaganda and lack of scholarship have whitewashed our history and true heritage while disfellowshipping even eating their own]their own without abandon.

Is truth limited to repeating the mantra of Acts 2:38 ... presenting soteriological and Christological views? Are we not to be truthful in all things ... such as our history and applicatation of bible-based holiness principle?

Those who drumbeat heritage are nominally Apostolics ...

To misquote my friend Ferd ...

"there is a very big difference between what is the new fangled PAJC and what was the light PAJC view of old."


Yes, both sides have evolved ... with 3 steppers making their circles smaller and smaller ... with continued in-fighting among each other ...

while PCIers have returned to their roots of open fellowship and seeking unity w/ the entire Body of Christ.
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  #6  
Old 12-19-2009, 03:57 PM
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Re: Wanted--PCI Type Books

Quote:
Originally Posted by willvan View Post
Can anyone help me locate the following books/literature referenced in Thomas Fudge’s book (Christianity Without the Cross ) ? I have done all the standard internet and bookstore searches that I can think of, knowing that they are long out of print and not available through the usual bookstores.
Thanks, Will

In the Service of the King : The Autobiography of W.E. Kidson
The Agreement of the Spirit and the Water and the Blood : John Paterson
My first Fifty years in Pentecost: A.D. VanHoose
Jehovah-Jesus by C.H. Yadon
The Phenomenon of Pentecost: A History of the Latter Rain : Frank Ewart--Edited by W.E. Kidson (1947 Edition)
Issues of the Apostolic Herald (Publication of the Pentecostal Church Incorporated)
Not on your list, but an excellent resource is: http://www.1stapostolic.org/oldpublications.html
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Old 12-19-2009, 06:59 PM
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Re: Wanted--PCI Type Books

I was born a few years after the merger. My only comment is that the UPC I knew as a child is not the same as what we see in 2009.

Revisonist (is that a word?) history!
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Old 12-19-2009, 09:17 PM
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Re: Wanted--PCI Type Books

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother David View Post
Not on your list, but an excellent resource is: http://www.1stapostolic.org/oldpublications.html
Those are old PAJC mags and Heralds, not PCI.

The young man who pastors that church is from the First Apostolic Church (FAC) in Cincinnati. Bro. Curts, pastor of the Cinti church from when he came to Cincinnati in the 1920's until his death in 1969, was PAW, PAJC, and UPC. He was not from the PCI side. When I came to Cincinnati in 1957 I lived with the Wilson family for several months. Bro. Woody Wilson was a deacon at FAC and later left for Frankfort, KY to re-open a church there. After his death, his son Danny took over and he is the current pastor. I assume what he has made available on pdf was stuff his father had from his time at FAC. For the few weeks I lived with the Wilsons, Danny was a little boy. Now he's pastor of a church.
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Old 12-20-2009, 02:43 AM
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Re: Wanted--PCI Type Books

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Those are old PAJC mags and Heralds, not PCI.
...
Yeah. But, but the early Heralds have a PCI flavor. I believe you posted an article from one recently by Howard Goss that ran completely contrary to the new "strong on doctrine!" Three Stepper attitude.

Just read through the Heralds and you'll get a good idea of the creeping revisionism that Commonsense mentions (above).
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  #10  
Old 12-20-2009, 07:22 PM
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Re: Wanted--PCI Type Books

This is the first issue of the Pentecostal Herald to be published after the merger. It is the December 1945 edition. A few of the pages are missing but this is the way it was provided to me by the PPH. Note the article titled "Our Paper The Pentecostal Herald" on page 6 of the Herald but page 4 of the pdf file. In it the temporary editor states that they would publish articles by both one-steppers and three-steppers (not his terms).
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File Type: pdf 1945_12.pdf (719.6 KB, 11 views)
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