Did the churches in Asia turn from Paul?

[TheLegalist]

2Ti 1:15 You are aware that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes.


Which includes Ephesus and other churches included in Revelations?

Was this who they spoke of in Revelations?

Rev 2:1 "To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: 'The words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand, who walks among the seven golden lampstands.
Rev 2:2 "'I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

2Ti 1:15 You are aware that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes.


Which includes Ephesus and other churches included in Revelations?

Was this who they spoke of in Revelations?

Rev 2:1 "To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: 'The words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand, who walks among the seven golden lampstands.
Rev 2:2 "'I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false.

Perhaps it means they "abandoned" Paul in his moment of need, being imprisoned. Remember Paul and Silas went their separate ways...didn't mean Silas left the church or anything

[Praxeas]

In fact, here is a good lesson in what we mean by looking at the context and not one verse

2Ti 1:15 You are aware that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes.
2Ti 1:16 May the Lord grant mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me and was not ashamed of my chains,
2Ti 1:17 but when he arrived in Rome he searched for me earnestly and found me--
2Ti 1:18 may the Lord grant him to find mercy from the Lord on that Day!--and you well know all the service he rendered at Ephesus.

[pelathais]

TL, are you suggesting that according to Revelation 2:1-2, the Ephesians had "tested" Paul and found him to be a "false apostle?"

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by pelathais

TL, are you suggesting that according to Revelation 2:1-2, the Ephesians had "tested" Paul and found him to be a "false apostle?"

Not saying anything but I find it interesting that All of Asia "turned" from Paul and you see a reference to "apostles" being tested. Then we see later these churches having issues and some doing some things scholars have been confused about for a while that are possibly contradictive. With the possibility of a rift than many give case for. Also to the churches they are eating meats offered to idols which JEsus clearly says NO without question in which also the church forbid in Acts 15 yet Paul as many scholars point out really doesn't really prohibit it overall except for conscience sake of others... Which has been a Pauline issue of debate forever. The early church had a lot of issues going on. To what depth we don't know.

Thayer Definition:
1) to turn away
1a) to remove anything from anyone
1b) to turn him away from allegiance to any one
1c) tempt to defect
2) to turn back, return, bring back
2a) of putting a sword back in its sheath
2b) of Judas returning money to temple
3) to turn one’s self away, turn back, return
4) to turn one’s self away from, deserting

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

In fact, here is a good lesson in what we mean by looking at the context and not one verse

2Ti 1:15 You are aware that all who are in Asia turned away from me, among whom are Phygelus and Hermogenes.
2Ti 1:16 May the Lord grant mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me and was not ashamed of my chains,
2Ti 1:17 but when he arrived in Rome he searched for me earnestly and found me--
2Ti 1:18 may the Lord grant him to find mercy from the Lord on that Day!--and you well know all the service he rendered at Ephesus.

that doesn't though have anything to do with whether the churches turned away. Paul is talking about a person who has done great service to him. Just as a whole church may leave a pastor out to dry some would come and help him no matter the overall abandoning of the pastor by the church toward his teachings or whatever reason. Thus Onesiphorus did good toward Paul. We also see Paul escaping from them

2Ti 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me great harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds.
2Ti 4:15 Beware of him yourself, for he strongly opposed our message.
2Ti 4:16 At my first defense no one came to stand by me, but all deserted me. May it not be charged against them!
2Ti 4:17 But the Lord stood by me and strengthened me, so that through me the message might be fully proclaimed and all the Gentiles might hear it. So I was rescued from the lion's mouth.

This could be a reference to the Jews(lions mouth) view Paul as teaching false doctrine. THus why Paul says "the message fully proclaimed and ALL the GEtniles might hear it. This could have been a revolt toward Paul like he was experiencing in Galatia.