Responding to a Trinitarian

Monarchianism · #1 02-21-2012, 10:17 PM

So, I have tried to provide an explanation for the Oneness belief to a Trinitarian. He tries to give one for his using three different forms of water, which He said 1.) Ice. 2.) Water. 3.) Air. He tried another one.. where he said to "pretend you are an alien holding a device" and can transform into three things. < Lol. His thoughts being "One alien, three persons." The third, he used his body as an example. He put his hand infront of his face and said "my eyes are are going to tell my hand to move." His hand moves. < He says that's two different things acting but it's still him. ( Like two persons acting but in one essence ). Then he said "my stomach digests food" but I can't tell my stomach to stop doing that. < His thoughts are "part of him is acting that he has no control over" but it is himself. As in, Jesus acts separate from the Father, but is God.

What would you respond with?

The Matt · #2 02-21-2012, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monarchianism

So, I have tried to provide an explanation for the Oneness belief to a Trinitarian. He tries to give one for his using three different forms of water, which He said 1.) Ice. 2.) Water. 3.) Air. He tried another one.. where he said to "pretend you are an alien holding a device" and can transform into three things. < Lol. His thoughts being "One alien, three persons." The third, he used his body as an example. He put his hand infront of his face and said "my eyes are are going to tell my hand to move." His hand moves. < He says that's two different things acting but it's still him. ( Like two persons acting but in one essence ). Then he said "my stomach digests food" but I can't tell my stomach to stop doing that. < His thoughts are "part of him is acting that he has no control over" but it is himself. As in, Jesus acts separate from the Father, but is God.

What would you respond with?

Scripture. The word is sufficient. I've never been smoked by a trinitarian. I have had one that left all huffy...

eyesopened · #3 02-21-2012, 10:38 PM

I do agree with Matt, but some people are so carnal that sometimes you may have get em hooked with something like this then go onto scripture but oh my gosh there are so many, but given what he uses as an explanation, try these two.. #1 man is made in the image of God and just as a man has many roles, such as Father brother,son, friend, provider.. ect but he is still only one individual who is made in the image of God, don't forget to emphasize that point,

and #2 usually gets a least a light bulb moment out of them for a minute until their conditioning kicks back in, #2 satan who is the father of lies, and spirit of iniquity will one day inhabit the son of perdition who is also known as the ant-christ and anti means instead of, I guess you can see satan's cheap imitation of who Jesus is here?

I who was a trinitarian for 45yrs who can now say that if there is a trinity than this means that satan will one day accomplish something that God did not.

or look at it like this, if you have one individual who can do the work of three people, and then you have those three people togther that it takes to do the work of the one individual, who is more valuable and efficent? the one individual or the group of three?

Praxeas · #4 02-22-2012, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monarchianism

So, I have tried to provide an explanation for the Oneness belief to a Trinitarian. He tries to give one for his using three different forms of water, which He said 1.) Ice. 2.) Water. 3.) Air. He tried another one.. where he said to "pretend you are an alien holding a device" and can transform into three things. < Lol. His thoughts being "One alien, three persons." The third, he used his body as an example. He put his hand infront of his face and said "my eyes are are going to tell my hand to move." His hand moves. < He says that's two different things acting but it's still him. ( Like two persons acting but in one essence ). Then he said "my stomach digests food" but I can't tell my stomach to stop doing that. < His thoughts are "part of him is acting that he has no control over" but it is himself. As in, Jesus acts separate from the Father, but is God.

What would you respond with?

Put your hand out to shake his and welcome him to Modalism

Titus2woman · #5 02-22-2012, 04:31 AM

Water, ice, steam... Shell, white, yolk... whatever...explains manifestations... not persons. Persons are completely separate functioning individuals with interdependence that can be severed... Jesus can not exist without the Father, the Holy Spirit can not exist without Jesus and the Father.

Most Trinnies are cool with Oneness once they understand that we do indeed believe in the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

Does your church have the oneness of God tract with the pie graph? That was powerful stuff for me when I was trying to understand the difference.

Austin · #6 02-22-2012, 05:08 AM

Jesus said,"""" MY SHEEP KNOW ME AND HEAR MY VOICE, AND ANOTHER THEY WILL NOT FOLLOW."""""

Why waste your time/

Lafon · #7 02-22-2012, 05:59 AM

Many years ago, as a new babe in Christ, I was experiencing difficulty (having a previous Trinitarian background) in understanding the Oneness of God. I went to a man whom I had always believed to be a "real" Christian, seeking his aid in my understanding. For more than an hour I sat and listened to him relate his understanding of the matter. Upon departing, and having only walked a short distance, I heard an audible voice say, "Trust not man and his explanations; seek ye instead God's divine revelation." Immediately I stopped, looked around, but saw no one.

Later that same evening during a conversation with another friend I told him of my efforts to learn the truth of this matter, and he suggested that I accompany him to visit with one of his friends whom he believed to be very knowledgeable about the Bible. So we went to pay his friend a visit. Upon arrival and following a brief introduction, I informed the other fellow of my desire. And I shall never forget his first response....

He opened a drawer, withdrew his Bible and opened it to Matthew 11:27, and asked me to read it. Here is what was written [Jesus speaking]:

"All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him."

This man [who is today one of my most cherished friends], then asked me to read the words of Matthew 16:13-17. There I read the following ~

When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, "Whom do men say that I, the Son of man am?" And they said, "Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias: and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets."
He saith unto them, "But whom say ye that I am?" And Simon Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."
And Jesus answered and said unto him, "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjonna: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

At once I realized that the truth of the Oneness of God comes only by revelation of God, and that this through His written Word. No amount of explanation by any man can ever enable another to come to this revelation, for God has reserved this to Himself alone. So as a result of this discovery, I refrain from trying to explain the Oneness of God to others, but seek instead to assist them to attain a proper understanding of the things which these two portions of the Scriptures reveal. If the seeker's heart is right with God, then God will give them the revelation; but if not, then they will continue in their ignorance of the matter.

Just my thoughts about this important matter, for truly it is, as stated by the Lord Himself, He has established that the God-given revelation of His Oneness is the very foundation of His Church. One cannot be a part of His Church without this revelation, IMHO.

bbyrd009 · #8 02-22-2012, 07:56 AM

Nice, Paw. That is the best "argument," imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Put your hand out to shake his and welcome him to Modalism

(we have a winna...)

bbyrd009 · #9 02-22-2012, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin

Jesus said,"""" MY SHEEP KNOW ME AND HEAR MY VOICE, AND ANOTHER THEY WILL NOT FOLLOW."""""

Why waste your time/

(we have another winna...)

Aquila · #10 02-22-2012, 08:34 AM

For me and my Trinitarian friends the battle ground is the word "person". In Modalism, each mode has a distinct sense of self-consciousness. For example, the Father has a distinct sense of divine self consciousness. The Son has a distinct sense of human self consciousness. In Trinitarianism a subsistent center of self-consciousness is a person. Therefore, to them, what we call modes are persons. And by their definition they are right. The Modalist defines "person" in a way more akin to how they would describe "being". So we say God is one person in three modes... they say God is a single being in three persons. lol