A Simple Question

[Jason B]

Does Jesus still have the power to save the and deliver from sin? It seems like the gospel is presented as nothing more than salvation from hell, but of no practical use for the sinner

[Jason B]

I was attempting to post from my cell phone and the app crashed. Then I restarted and it posted the opening post before I finished my thought.

Now I don't feel like retyping everything so I will just leave the question as is.

[Amanah]

I don't know, this is how I see it off the top of my head:

In repentance we turn from following sin, and start to follow Christ
The old man is buried in baptism so that the body of sin is destroyed,
and we are filled with the Holy Ghost to walk in newness of life.

That newness of life mean that we begin to walk after the Spirit and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, the lusts of the eyes, and the pride of life.

In atonement is every provision for salvation, healing, deliverance, provision, all that we can ask or think according to the riches in glory.

We are born into the arms of our Mother, Church so that we can be given the milk of the Word, and raised up to walk in the stature of the fullness of Christ.

[Amanah]

we are to do the same works that Jesus did when he walked on this earth . . .

When Jesus passed through a Jewish village,
ministering all around,
the proof of His presence was everywhere,
because nobody sick was found.
(From a poem by Reinhard Bonnke)

[Nitehawk013]

Originally Posted by Amanah

we are to do the same works that Jesus did when he walked on this earth . . .

When Jesus passed through a Jewish village,
ministering all around,
the proof of His presence was everywhere,
because nobody sick was found.
(From a poem by Reinhard Bonnke)

I would argue with the accurracy of this. It paints the picture that everywhere Jesus went everyone was healed miraculously. That isn't what is recorded in our Bible. We get the accounts of those who are healed, but it rarely makes mention of the potential hundreds to thousands who were not healed.

I fear it twists our view of Christ's mission and works. We start thinking everyone should be healed today since they all were back then. Except they weren't ALL healed back then just as many times today people aren't healed.

Healings were meant to testify of Christ's power and authority but also IMO to give a glimpse of what will come our way when we leave this life and go on to the next. We will be healed and put on a glorious body. Not everyone will be healed in this life. Death will be the doorway they pass through to healing.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

I would argue with the accurracy of this. It paints the picture that everywhere Jesus went everyone was healed miraculously. That isn't what is recorded in our Bible. We get the accounts of those who are healed, but it rarely makes mention of the potential hundreds to thousands who were not healed.

I fear it twists our view of Christ's mission and works. We start thinking everyone should be healed today since they all were back then. Except they weren't ALL healed back then just as many times today people aren't healed.

Healings were meant to testify of Christ's power and authority but also IMO to give a glimpse of what will come our way when we leave this life and go on to the next. We will be healed and put on a glorious body. Not everyone will be healed in this life. Death will be the doorway they pass through to healing.

We see no place in scripture where Yeshua either could not or would not heal someone who asked him. Im pretty sure in several places it says he healed all that came to him.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Does Jesus still have the power to save the and deliver from sin? It seems like the gospel is presented as nothing more than salvation from hell, but of no practical use for the sinner

People have been taught so long and so strongly that a Christian cannot live without sin that is now considered the norm. Here Christ created millions of galaxies containing billions of stars each........but they cannot believe that same mighty power can keep them from committing sin!

You would think that satan, sin, and flesh are the most powerful forces in the Universe!

It's time for the true Christ to be preached and experienced again. If one is filled with his glorious spirit and power sin is not our master. The new creation man is designed to be more than a conqueror! Not only will his spirit work the righteousness of God in his people he will do wonderful things in their lives.

Saints need to flee from teaching that robs their faith and belittles the power of God.

[renee819]

Jason, Jesus is still the same. It is we that have changed.

I have asked a few of my family that still goes to church, “Is anyone getting saved today, baptized, filled with the Holy Ghost ?” And in every instance, I didn't get a direct answer, but the subject was changed.

Remember, when Jesus went to his home town, and He could do no mighty works there, because the people did not believe Him. I believe that God will leave a people to their own devices, that will not serve Him with their whole hear, mind and soul.

He left the Children of Israel for 400 yrs, during the time of the Pharhos (msp)
There was no Prophet for 400 yrs, before Jesus was born.

We are living in the last days, and it will get worse. And I believe the Pastors have missed it.

By preaching the Denominational message of holiness, (man-made laws) they have skipped true holiness that comes from the heart. They preach doctrine, without getting down into the real meat of it. That those listening could go out and explain to others.

They forgot what the 5 fold ministry is for. To equip the saints, that they also become workers in the kingdom. They forget that we multiply be division. But what a Pastor fears most is dividing. He loses his clientele. And yes I said, clientele. He loses his tithes and offerings.
I once talked to a Pastors wife, that was depending on the tithes and offerings for their living. She said to me, that they had decided that they had to go out and find a “higher class of Christians” to be able to make it. In other words some that had more money.
And then if they found those with more money, would they also try to preach in a way to keep them happy?

I hate the politics in the church. And the money grubbing. (And I paid my tithes faithfully for years, a few times giving my last dollar)
And I hate the sitting on the fence in some things like Christmas and Easter, while claiming to be different from the world, and knowing that these are Pagan Holidays. even the world knows that.

What do I think will happen? I hope I am wrong. But I see the One World Religion rising, and any church that will not join them will be closed.
You that believe that 'all roads lead to heaven, and one Denomination is just as good as another, are playing right into their hands.

And then the only true Christians will have to meet in house churches, as the Chinese Christians do.

It gives me no pleasure to write this. I feel like crying, to see the condition of the world, but worse to see the condition of the churches.

[Jason B]

ok. I'm on a laptop now, so I'll try to repost what I had intended to do as the opening post last night (as much as I can remember)

A SIMPLE QUESTION

Does Jesus still have the power to save the and deliver from sin? It seems like the gospel is presented as nothing more than salvation from hell, but of no practical use for the sinner. Are the issues we deal with now more complex than what Paul and Silas encountered? Are our maladies more potent that what Philip encountered? IS our world so much worse than the ancient world during the height of the Roman Empire and rife paganism, lasciviousness, debauchery, etc than what the apostles and Jesus himself faced?

Why must we rely on the arm of flesh to do what the arm of the Lord should do? We're content I say content to kneel beside one in their struggle with sin, we will weep with the sinner who is broken over their homosexuality, drug addiction, porn addiction, abuse issues, etc, but we don't actually offer a solution. We tell them that Jesus died for their sins and so they can be saved, and one day they will go to heaven, BUT until that day they are left to struggle hopelessly in the bondage of sin. The church (generally speaking, I know there is still a remnant of power in the American church) turns to doctors, psychologists, pharmaceuticals, and the like for the real problems. People blame their issues on bi-polar disorder, ADHD, ADD, etc. Everyone believes they need some sort of medication or they can't behave normally. Paxil, Zolaf, etc. Drug use is apparently to big an issue for Jesus, so is apparently homosexuality. So is apparently smoking a cigarette. So is lust, greed, lying. People confess Christ, but don't see any deliverance-IS JESUS CHRIST STILL ABLE TO SAVE? And save from what?! Just save someone from hell? NO!

Jesus Christ is a mighty savior. he saved me from nearly everything you can read about in your new testament in the list of sins (Romans 1, 1 Corinthians 6, Galatians 5, Ephesians 5, Rev 21, etc) , and I thank God that he did. I wonder how my life would have been different if I had been introduced to a Savior who would deliver my soul from hell, but didn't help to overcome the vices I had. You hear people say "I'd be in jail right now" or "I'd be dead right now" and quite frankly both of those things might have applied to me, but without the flare for the dramatic, I can say with an almost 100% certainty, that if Christ didn't deliver me from my sins, I have every reason to believe I wouldn't be in church right now, and its very likely my marriage and home would have dissolved long ago. My sins were destructive both to me, and to anyone who would be too close to me. But again, thank God for deliverance. So why don't preachers preach about deliverance? When they do, its deliverance in some spooky Bob Larson like way, deliverance from this evil spirit or that evil spirit. I don't believe that deliverance must be preached that way or as deliverance from a spirit of anything. I think we need to preach Christ as the deliverer. The One who delivers you from sin, from dishonesty, from lust, from immorality (by giving you the power to exercise self control and restraint), from alcohol (who says once an alcoholic always an alcoholic?! Let that be the battle cry of the world. Let the church say "There is a Redeemer!"), from drug addiction (why do we need to run people in our churches through rehab programs and to the doctors, is it because Christ can not deliver them-OR- is it because we don't introduce them to the Christ who CAN deliver them), homosexuals (this is so strong in our society instead of allowing God to deliver, many are softening their stance on homosexuality, or altogether excusing it, refusing to call it sin, and no longer counseling these people to give up that lifestyle). Greed, can God deliver from the desire to have more and more? Can he not make our material things seem useless in comparison to the riches of Christ anymore?

I'm sick of this phony Christianity, I'm sick of people being told they are saved and that's pretty much all there is to Christianity while they struggle in bondage and slavery to sin that destroys their lives, their physical bodies, and cripples any chance at a spiritual genuine relationship with Jesus Christ, all because preachers don't have enough faith to boldly proclaim, JESUS WILL SET YOUR FREE IF YOU WILL PUT ALL YOUR TRUST IN HIM!

The problem is twofold 1)We don't have enough faith to believe that Jesus will deliver and 2)We're so worried that someone won't want to convert if we preach old fashion REPENTANCE. Thus repentance now is watered down to mean "acknowledge that you have sinned and Jesus died for those sins." That's all well and good, and a nice step towards repentance, but that is simply not repentance. Everyone knows they are a sinner. Everyone. not everyone accepts the fact that Jesus died for those sins, but even if they do, it doesn't mean they're saved. But that's what we teach many times, and then some compound the error by saying "once you're saved you're always saved, you can never lose your salvation". Now the "converted" sinner, still in the bondage of sin feels secure in their sin. On the flipside the apostolic is similar in that they often times judge their relationship with God on whether or not they have recently spoken in tongues. And if tongues has come forth recently, then sometimes the sin doesn't really matter, theres not a great desire for true repentance.

True repentance ought to be preached to all people like John the Baptist, like Jesus, like Peter and Paul. If you truly repent you don't hold anything back. You give it all to God, you lay it all down. The immorality, the drugs, the greed, the hatred, the pride, etc. (Does this mean a person will never be tempted by their old vices-absolutely not-but it does mean there is power in Jesus to have victory over those things from the outset [repentance] and continual victory over the temptations that come over the course of the Christian life [sanctification] and in the event that someone fails and gives into temptation, there is no need to give up on Christ, because there is grace to the person who will freely confess their sin. IF we sin we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.)

But I'm not talking about the occasion sin here an there over the course of a Christian life, I'm talking about people coming into contact with a church, preacher, gospel, and being UNCHANGED. still being BOUND as a slave to sin. It shouldn't be. If we preached repentance as John the Baptist "bring forth fruits worthy of repentance" as Jesus "except you DENY YOURSELF and take up your cross daily and follow me you CAN NOT be my disciple" and "whoever will love their life/seek to save their life will lose it, but whoever will lose their life will find it" and Peter "Repent every one of you" and Paul "at the times this ignorance God winked, but NOW commandeth all men everywhere to repent." See when they preached repentance there wasn't an escape hatch, they didn't soften the message to make it more appealing or easier to accept. They preached a full and complete repentance and the end result was mighty deliverance from sin and great sanctification in the church.

Some will say "what about Corinth"? What abut Corinth, sure they had their problems, but overall they lived lives that were a complete turn around from the paganism and immorality they knew. We see that in 1 Corinthians 6:11 "And such WERE some of you", nowdays we would have to read it to churches and say "And such ARE some of you", but the tragic thing is we wouldn't change the rest of the verse. Paul said you WERE, we would be forced to say you ARE, but we still say to those who are bound by sin, "but your washed, your sanctified, your justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." When really the verse just above it says DO NOT BE DECIEVED THE UNRIGHTEOUS WILL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD, and here we are telling the unrighteous that in fact they WILL inherit the Kingdom of God.

I'm sickened by it. I can't fix it, all I can do is preach deliverance to the people I meet and preach to, but it is a challenge because everyone you meet (even when I go preach in the county jail) everyone thinks they are already saved. Saved, but in and out of jail. Saved but going to prison. Saved but addicted to drugs. Saved but living in fornication. Saved but a slave to sin. BRETHREN THESE THNGS OUGHT NOT TO BE SO.

[DanShaf]

Simple question...Simple answer..he WILL deliver out of the snare of the devil! He will remove the craving for sin! I enjoyed your post.