I'll admit it. I'm a cynic. Probably to unhealthy levels. I try daily to overcome this tendency and not allow it to hinder my faith. But especially when it comes to faith in PEOPLE...I have a hard time getting past my own mind, my history of men and women not being trustworthy, or being ignorant, etc.
Have you ever been in one of those services with a man who evangelizes as a "prophet"? And he goes about during the service saying things like any worldly "medium" might say.
Medium/Prophet: "Someone here...has children...in California? A name...that starts with a "D"..."
Woman in audience of 300 tentatively raises her hand.
Medium/Prophet: "God is going to restore your relationships."
Woman cries because she has children in California she gave up for adoption.
Now - I know this woman, and God DID reunite her and give her a relationship with all her children. But the whole "Is there...a woman...in here...who's name starts with "L"..." thing really, really sounds like any weird "medium" talk show you might see on TV.
There's a big name "prophet" in the UPC who we once saw...At one service, he called out a man who was visiting the US from Liberia. The prophet started talking about how he knew someone from Guyana...and started describing the country of Guyana...and how God was calling this man to go to Guyana...and how Guyana is near Liberia, correct?
Well, the problem is, Guyana is a country in South America.
The man awkwardly tried to correct the "prophet" that Liberia wasn't too far from Ghana, Africa...but Guyana was quite far away.
The prophet then tried to gloss over it that...well, God still needed him in Guyana...and that God would make a way.
I have to admit it - I and the person next to me could not keep a straight fact. It was very amusing to think that "God" messed up his geography when speaking through this prophet. Not long after that the prophet announced how there were two people in the whole service who were not on board with what he was speaking...and that he didn't care if we dressed in suits and looked the part...etc. etc. Pretty sure he was talking about us. But you didn't need a "word from God" to notice we could barely hold back snickering at the whole geographic snafu.
What's your threshold of trust for self-proclaimed prophets? If they get one thing wrong, are they considered a false prophet forever thereafter?
Well, I just posted on the other thread about the gifts of the spirit. When anyone begins to operate supernaturally, it is very easy to get lifted up, and begin working through your flesh, in an eagerness to prove just how amazing of a prophet you are, working out your own destruction.
I think this, I think it is highly possible this "prophet" perhaps may have been given a gift by the Lord in some time past, and perhaps had been used supernaturally by God at one time, but there is little doubt in my mind from what you've said that this guy began to get lifted up, and thought anything that comes out of his mouth was tantamount to the word of God. God will not share His glory with another. The spirit of Jesus operating the gift departed, and the man's flesh began operating the gift, and was using it to his own destruction, i.e. prophesying something completely untrue.
Let me preface my thoughts on this by saying, I DO believe in the real ministry of the spirit and the operation of the gifts in the church....that said:
IMHO, much of the prophelying we see in Pentecost is the result of "hero" worship and pressure to perform.
Allow me for a moment.....a man/woman goes to preach in xyz church and while ministering in the anointing, he/she begins to operate in the gifts of the spirit. People are truly healed, others are legitimately prophesied to, etc. The pastor calls all of his friends and says "man, you have to have so & so to your church they operate in the gifts and they will really bless your church." This person goes to other churches and God uses them mightily and they build a "reputation" of being used in "the gifts." They start being lifted up and revered by those who have either seen first hand or have heard of their exploits.
Now at some point this person goes to a church and in the course of ministry they don't get a "word" they don't see a miracle....etc......but because the reason they were invited to this meeting was because everybody knows "they operate in the gifts" and if nothing happens......they may start losing meetings....they start giving words, and prophelying. But because of their reputation and our fascination and worship of "gifted" people keep following them.
If we could ever get to the place where if God doesn't say it....we don't say it, and if a miracle doesn't happen then God is still glorified and the people edified....we could have honesty in ministry. If we could get the people to quit following after signs.....and if we would educate the body that the gifts are for everyday operation in the life of the believer instead of just a handful of spiritual superstars, we would see a powerful release of the supernatural in our midst. Yes we need to TEACH on it and then release the people of God to operate. And then people would not have to follow after a "sign" because they would see signs and wonder all the time....not just when Bro/Sis so&so comes to town.
Let me preface my thoughts on this by saying, I DO believe in the real ministry of the spirit and the operation of the gifts in the church....that said:
IMHO, much of the prophelying we see in Pentecost is the result of "hero" worship and pressure to perform.
Allow me for a moment.....a man/woman goes to preach in xyz church and while ministering in the anointing, he/she begins to operate in the gifts of the spirit. People are truly healed, others are legitimately prophesied to, etc. The pastor calls all of his friends and says "man, you have to have so & so to your church they operate in the gifts and they will really bless your church." This person goes to other churches and God uses them mightily and they build a "reputation" of being used in "the gifts." They start being lifted up and revered by those who have either seen first hand or have heard of their exploits.
Now at some point this person goes to a church and in the course of ministry they don't get a "word" they don't see a miracle....etc......but because the reason they were invited to this meeting was because everybody knows "they operate in the gifts" and if nothing happens......they may start losing meetings....they start giving words, and prophelying. But because of their reputation and our fascination and worship of "gifted" people keep following them.
If we could ever get to the place where if God doesn't say it....we don't say it, and if a miracle doesn't happen then God is still glorified and the people edified....we could have honesty in ministry. If we could get the people to quit following after signs.....and if we would educate the body that the gifts are for everyday operation in the life of the believer instead of just a handful of spiritual superstars, we would see a powerful release of the supernatural in our midst. Yes we need to TEACH on it and then release the people of God to operate. And then people would not have to follow after a "sign" because they would see signs and wonder all the time....not just when Bro/Sis so&so comes to town.
JMHO
I do believe much more teaching needs to be done in this area.
Let me preface my thoughts on this by saying, I DO believe in the real ministry of the spirit and the operation of the gifts in the church....that said:
IMHO, much of the prophelying we see in Pentecost is the result of "hero" worship and pressure to perform.
Allow me for a moment.....a man/woman goes to preach in xyz church and while ministering in the anointing, he/she begins to operate in the gifts of the spirit. People are truly healed, others are legitimately prophesied to, etc. The pastor calls all of his friends and says "man, you have to have so & so to your church they operate in the gifts and they will really bless your church." This person goes to other churches and God uses them mightily and they build a "reputation" of being used in "the gifts." They start being lifted up and revered by those who have either seen first hand or have heard of their exploits.
Now at some point this person goes to a church and in the course of ministry they don't get a "word" they don't see a miracle....etc......but because the reason they were invited to this meeting was because everybody knows "they operate in the gifts" and if nothing happens......they may start losing meetings....they start giving words, and prophelying. But because of their reputation and our fascination and worship of "gifted" people keep following them.
If we could ever get to the place where if God doesn't say it....we don't say it, and if a miracle doesn't happen then God is still glorified and the people edified....we could have honesty in ministry. If we could get the people to quit following after signs.....and if we would educate the body that the gifts are for everyday operation in the life of the believer instead of just a handful of spiritual superstars, we would see a powerful release of the supernatural in our midst. Yes we need to TEACH on it and then release the people of God to operate. And then people would not have to follow after a "sign" because they would see signs and wonder all the time....not just when Bro/Sis so&so comes to town.
Let me preface my thoughts on this by saying, I DO believe in the real ministry of the spirit and the operation of the gifts in the church....that said:
IMHO, much of the prophelying we see in Pentecost is the result of "hero" worship and pressure to perform.
Allow me for a moment.....a man/woman goes to preach in xyz church and while ministering in the anointing, he/she begins to operate in the gifts of the spirit. People are truly healed, others are legitimately prophesied to, etc. The pastor calls all of his friends and says "man, you have to have so & so to your church they operate in the gifts and they will really bless your church." This person goes to other churches and God uses them mightily and they build a "reputation" of being used in "the gifts." They start being lifted up and revered by those who have either seen first hand or have heard of their exploits.
Now at some point this person goes to a church and in the course of ministry they don't get a "word" they don't see a miracle....etc......but because the reason they were invited to this meeting was because everybody knows "they operate in the gifts" and if nothing happens......they may start losing meetings....they start giving words, and prophelying. But because of their reputation and our fascination and worship of "gifted" people keep following them.
If we could ever get to the place where if God doesn't say it....we don't say it, and if a miracle doesn't happen then God is still glorified and the people edified....we could have honesty in ministry. If we could get the people to quit following after signs.....and if we would educate the body that the gifts are for everyday operation in the life of the believer instead of just a handful of spiritual superstars, we would see a powerful release of the supernatural in our midst. Yes we need to TEACH on it and then release the people of God to operate. And then people would not have to follow after a "sign" because they would see signs and wonder all the time....not just when Bro/Sis so&so comes to town.
I do believe much more teaching needs to be done in this area.
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