Ohio Officer Involved Shooting

[n david]

"""An Ohio police officer who killed an unarmed driver after a high-speed chase shot the man less than five seconds after getting out of his cruiser.

Strongsville Officer Jason Miller shot 37-year-old Roy Evans Jr. about 4.7 seconds after exiting his cruiser, according to an Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation summary released to the Associated Press through an open records request."""

"""The video shows the van backing up as Miller jumps out of his cruiser. As Miller approaches Evans' van, the van lurches forward several feet but is blocked by a police cruiser.

Miller told investigators he was afraid Evans was going to "back up and pin" him with his van, but the video shows Miller was standing to the side of the vehicle and not in its path.

Miller then opens the van's door, yelling "put your hands up!" and shoots Evans in less than a second, the video and report show. Miller told investigators he shot Evans when he saw Evans' right hand drop out of view."""

I can't imagine what it's like to be a cop these days. I don't know what was going through Officer Miller's head. And perhaps this article is written in a way to unfairly or inaccurately attribute guilt to him. From reading the article one could believe the officer was intending on shooting the driver the second he exited his vehicle -- at least that's what I took from it.

The grand jury refused to indict him. I don't know what evidence they viewed. There's an obvious issue with what he claimed and what actually happened. "...he was afraid Evans was going to "back up and pin" him with his van, but the video shows Miller was standing to the side of the vehicle and not in its path."

This also bothers me: "Miller said this was the fourth on-duty shooting he was involved in."

Now, the article doesn't explain his statement or offer any details. They didn't state whether he was the shooter in the other incidents or if he was just on the scene during them.

Officer Miller, per other reports, is a 10-year veteran. I found an interesting article about an incident from several years ago:

"In 2009, Miller was struck by a car on Valley Parkway, just North of Route 82. He was reported as "unconscious and not breathing." Miller had been clearing debris from an earlier accident, and recovered."

I would question if Officer Miller is mentally fit to be a police officer. His claim of being afraid the suspect would "back up and pin" him makes me wonder if he has mental issues from the 2009 incident.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/31...tims-door.html

[Jermyn Davidson]

This made me angry when I heard about and reading about it now only brings back the rage!

I know (casually) the first cousin of this man's best friend. He told me about it while at the barbershop.

I think this-- I don't want to even call him an-- this guy is unfit and I can't comprehend the phenomenon of grand juries simply REFUSING to indict LEO's when they are clearly caught in lies and kill people unnecessarily.

Roy Evans Jr. did nothing that was worth being killed over. NOTHING!

[Esaias]

You can't trust ANYTHING the media says. Whatever they are saying is INTENTIONALLY SCRIPTED TO PRODUCE CERTAIN REACTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

This made me angry when I heard about and reading about it now only brings back the rage!

I know (casually) the first cousin of this man's best friend. He told me about it while at the barbershop.

I think this-- I don't want to even call him an-- this guy is unfit and I can't comprehend the phenomenon of grand juries simply REFUSING to indict LEO's when they are clearly caught in lies and kill people unnecessarily.

Roy Evans Jr. did nothing that was worth being killed over. NOTHING!

There's a link to the dashcam video below. You can't see much after the van stops and two officers begin approaching the van -- they're between the camera and the driver. Everything happens very fast. I don't know which of the two officers in the video is Miller who fired the shot.

The video is clear about one thing, Miller wasn't in the path of the van at any time in this video. He claimed to be afraid of being pinned between the van and a police vehicle, but for that to happen, he would have had to have been several feet over and in front of the van.

Other articles claim the chase started with Evans nearly running over Miller. Again, with what happened in 2009, I'm wondering if that didn't trigger something and cause Miller snap and shoot without actually being threatened.

[TheLayman]

Originally Posted by n david

"""An Ohio police officer who killed an unarmed driver after a high-speed chase shot the man less than five seconds after getting out of his cruiser.

Strongsville Officer Jason Miller shot 37-year-old Roy Evans Jr. about 4.7 seconds after exiting his cruiser, according to an Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation summary released to the Associated Press through an open records request."""

"""The video shows the van backing up as Miller jumps out of his cruiser. As Miller approaches Evans' van, the van lurches forward several feet but is blocked by a police cruiser.

Miller told investigators he was afraid Evans was going to "back up and pin" him with his van, but the video shows Miller was standing to the side of the vehicle and not in its path.

Miller then opens the van's door, yelling "put your hands up!" and shoots Evans in less than a second, the video and report show. Miller told investigators he shot Evans when he saw Evans' right hand drop out of view."""

For anyone reading this let me teach you something about police work. Have you ever noticed that the first thing police say to suspects in tense situations has to do with their hands? "Put your hands up," "put your hands on the steering wheel," "don't put your hands in your pockets," etc. If you are taught what to do in an active shooter situation where you work you will be told that when you are able to leave keep you hands in plain view and have nothing in them (such as a cell phone, nothing). Let me tell you why so that if you hear a police officer mention your hands you will immediately take whatever is going on 10 times more seriously and do exactly as you are told.

Police officers are taught over and over and over...pistols, rifles, shotguns, knives, etc. don't kill you...hands kill you, hands kill you, hands kill you. If you have control of suspects hands you are likely not in danger...if you don't have control of a suspects hands your life could be forfeit at any second. So, once again (there will be a quiz), if you hear a police officer tell you to do something with your hands do EXACTLY as you are told and do it IMMEDIATELY. If you are speaking with a police officer or are going to be speaking with a police officer, do not have anything in your hands (such as a cell phone) and keep your hands in view, reach for nothing unless told to do so.

I can't imagine what it's like to be a cop these days.

Unless you have are or have been a police officer, that is true.

I don't know what was going through Officer Miller's head.

And that is true, and certainly the grand jury knows much, much more than we do from reading this article (though I will tell you some things that aren't in the article).

And perhaps this article is written in a way to unfairly or inaccurately attribute guilt to him. From reading the article one could believe the officer was intending on shooting the driver the second he exited his vehicle -- at least that's what I took from it.

That is interesting to me and it may be what the writer intended because he also does not understand. I didn't get exactly that but then I was looking at it through somewhat different eyes.

The grand jury refused to indict him. I don't know what evidence they viewed. There's an obvious issue with what he claimed and what actually happened. "...he was afraid Evans was going to "back up and pin" him with his van, but the video shows Miller was standing to the side of the vehicle and not in its path."

He was speaking of the driver's door...I understand that you didn't see that and yet I knew what he was speaking of immediately. Once he opened the drivers door an extreme danger of being pinned/injured by the driver should he continue to move the van most certainly exists. And I say this because this was probably foremost in that police officers mind (I'm not sure that I would have approached the van that way and opened the door like that...you are putting yourself at the mercy of a driver that has attempted to evade and continued to do so even after police vehicles began to block him).

This also bothers me: "Miller said this was the fourth on-duty shooting he was involved in."

Now, the article doesn't explain his statement or offer any details. They didn't state whether he was the shooter in the other incidents or if he was just on the scene during them.

That's certainly something to look at, but nothing that indicates guilt.

Officer Miller, per other reports, is a 10-year veteran. I found an interesting article about an incident from several years ago:

"In 2009, Miller was struck by a car on Valley Parkway, just North of Route 82. He was reported as "unconscious and not breathing." Miller had been clearing debris from an earlier accident, and recovered."

I would question if Officer Miller is mentally fit to be a police officer. His claim of being afraid the suspect would "back up and pin" him makes me wonder if he has mental issues from the 2009 incident.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/31...tims-door.html

So here is something else in the article:

"She said Evans, who had a long criminal history with multiple felony convictions and most recently was sentenced to two years in prison in 2014 for felonious assault, feared going back to prison."

"Evans was out on parole and was driving without a license because he needed to get to and from work, Pauley said. He was coming back from a carpet job the night he was killed."

The reason I point this out is that I don't know how the pursuit began but I would bet dimes to dollars that at the beginning of the pursuit a wants and warrants was requested on the license plate and that the police knew about the history of Mr Evans and believe me, police know that felons do not want to go back to jail (and attempting to evade police will get your parole revoked every time). That makes your suspect dangerous to you from the outset, you are at Defcon 3 already. The guy runs, you are at Defcon 2, flush the bombers (not your typical day at work).

Now, I don't know exactly what happened when that van door was opened, there is no body cam video to see. But I can tell you this: Police are taught the reason to shoot is to "stop the action," an "action" that left unchecked stands a reasonable chance of resulting in death or great bodily injury to an innocent person (including the police officer). If he thought the driver was going to injure him by backing up...stop the action. If he had reason to believe the driver might be reaching for a firearm (and having someone reach down between seats instead of putting "hands up" as he was told to do would be "reason to believe")...stop the action.

All of that said, sometimes police use deadly force to "end a tense situation" which is not always the same as a legitimate need to "stop the action" (and not a reason to use deadly force). Additionally, a police officer can use bad tactics and get himself in a situation that he could have avoided. That is possible in this case, but not necessarily the case here. The police officers approach to that van was dangerous under any circumstances, even if the driver had been alone. It would have been much better to order the suspect out of the vehicle from cover, there may have been no need to end a tense situation there (someone may have been able to talk him out of the vehicle).

But that is not necessarily so. If the officers had reason to believe that the girlfriend and/or any of her children would be in danger if the situation were to continue, then there was ample reason to try to "end the situation" (which again is not stop the action) sooner rather than later. So maybe they felt that approach (running up to the vehicle and throwing the door open) was necessary. If that is the case, as I said, the officer was in potential danger from the moment he exited his vehicle (a police officer would be extremely vulnerable to being shot in that approach, and he should know that). Look, situations such as this are far more complicated than you could understand (literally), there are many lives at stake (police officers dealing with the situation, the driver/suspect who is responsible for it, and others in the van including children) and everything will either get resolved somewhat peaceably or tragically within seconds...that's just the best case scenario often times. Just some food for thought.

Quiz...if you have to deal with a police officer what are you going to do with your hands?

TheLayman

[Amanah]

Thank you TLM, very good information.

[Esaias]

These days, it's real simple. When interacting with police understand they can and will kill you on the spot for any perceived threat to their immediate safety. Thus, act accordingly.

[Monterrey]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

This made me angry when I heard about and reading about it now only brings back the rage!

I know (casually) the first cousin of this man's best friend. He told me about it while at the barbershop.

I think this-- I don't want to even call him an-- this guy is unfit and I can't comprehend the phenomenon of grand juries simply REFUSING to indict LEO's when they are clearly caught in lies and kill people unnecessarily.

Roy Evans Jr. did nothing that was worth being killed over. NOTHING!

Jermyn......

I guess you just don't understand how it works. The grand jury refused to indict because they believed him and not you.

There is more to this story than what we are being told.

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by n david

There's a link to the dashcam video below. You can't see much after the van stops and two officers begin approaching the van -- they're between the camera and the driver. Everything happens very fast. I don't know which of the two officers in the video is Miller who fired the shot.

The video is clear about one thing, Miller wasn't in the path of the van at any time in this video. He claimed to be afraid of being pinned between the van and a police vehicle, but for that to happen, he would have had to have been several feet over and in front of the van.

Other articles claim the chase started with Evans nearly running over Miller. Again, with what happened in 2009, I'm wondering if that didn't trigger something and cause Miller snap and shoot without actually being threatened.

*Caution - Dashcam of the shooting*

Frankly - while in hindsight I can say there's other choices they could have made - it seems to me they took appropriate action under the circumstances.

1) The guy knew he needed to stop, because of all the police vehicles chasing him with their lights on (rather obvious clue).

2) The guy repeatedly rammed the police cruiser with his van, displaying his intent to do anything to escape the situation.

3) The guy failed to surrender even when being approached by the cop. He was still trying to ram the vehicle in front of him.

Could they have waited him out? Could they have forced him to come to them? Perhaps, but as I said, that's me viewing it all in hindsight. I wasn't there in the middle of the action, when adrenaline is pumping and emotions are running hot.

And if may be blunt, police officers are there to preserve the peace. This man made it obvious he had no intention of complying with them. If they let the situation go any further, who knows if some innocent bystander could have been hurt by him.

[Monterrey]

Originally Posted by Jito463

Frankly - while in hindsight I can say there's other choices they could have made - it seems to me they took appropriate action under the circumstances.

1) The guy knew he needed to stop, because of all the police vehicles chasing him with their lights on (rather obvious clue).

2) The guy repeatedly rammed the police cruiser with his van, displaying his intent to do anything to escape the situation.

3) The guy failed to surrender even when being approached by the cop. He was still trying to ram the vehicle in front of him.

Could they have waited him out? Could they have forced him to come to them? Perhaps, but as I said, that's me viewing it all in hindsight. I wasn't there in the middle of the action, when adrenaline is pumping and emotions are running hot.

And if may be blunt, police officers are there to preserve the peace. This man made it obvious he had no intention of complying with them. If they let the situation go any further, who knows if some innocent bystander could have been hurt by him.

Assault with a deadly weapon... (van).

They responded in kind, with guns, not good but that is where we are living.