Crusades: Are People getting the REAL Holy ghost??????

[Thad]

at a recent District event before the sermon, they had a preacher get up to do a holy ghost rally ,or mini Crusade that ended up taking a large part of the service .

Let me say, I want multitudes to get the holy ghost, but I have a serious Issue with some of the things that take place at these . I am asking your opinoins. tell me if I am right or perhaps being too critical.

I was on the platform and saw for myself People raising their hands and CLAIMING THE HOLY GHOST FOR THE PERSONS! aren't we suppose to let the person claim it ??? the Evangelist seemed eager to count yet another one as the numbers went higher and higher which made the crowd more and more excited.

furthermore, I have a problem with people coaxing people into getting the holy ghost. It has been my observation over the years that when people get the holy ghost out of pure inspiration , they don't last. the holy ghost that the saints received under Bro Urshan and even in my father's day, kept them for 50 years. these people getting the holy ghost in these mass services are often never seen again!

your thoughts

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Thad

at a recent District event before the sermon, they had a preacher get up to do a holy ghost rally ,or mini Crusade that ended up taking a large part of the service .

Let me say, I want multitudes to get the holy ghost, but I have a serious Issue with some of the things that take place at these . I am asking your opinoins. tell me if I am right or perhaps being too critical.

I was on the platform and saw for myself People raising their hands and CLAIMING THE HOLY GHOST FOR THE PERSONS! aren't we suppose to let the person claim it ??? the Evangelist seemed eager to count yet another one as the numbers went higher and higher which made the crowd more and more excited.

furthermore, I have a problem with people coaxing people into getting the holy ghost. It has been my observation over the years that when people get the holy ghost out of pure inspiration , they don't last. the holy ghost that the saints received under Bro Urshan and even in my father's day, kept them for 50 years. these people getting the holy ghost in these mass services are often never seen again!

your thoughts

Thad, do you know for a fact that everyone who received the HG under Bro Urshan kept it for 50 years? I would venture to guess the church has always had people who get the HG only to never be seen again.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Thad

at a recent District event before the sermon, they had a preacher get up to do a holy ghost rally ,or mini Crusade that ended up taking a large part of the service .

Originally Posted by Thad

Let me say, I want multitudes to get the holy ghost, but I have a serious Issue with some of the things that take place at these . I am asking your opinoins. tell me if I am right or perhaps being too critical.

I was on the platform and saw for myself People raising their hands and CLAIMING THE HOLY GHOST FOR THE PERSONS! aren't we suppose to let the person claim it ??? the Evangelist seemed eager to count yet another one as the numbers went higher and higher which made the crowd more and more excited.

furthermore, I have a problem with people coaxing people into getting the holy ghost. It has been my observation over the years that when people get the holy ghost out of pure inspiration , they don't last. the holy ghost that the saints received under Bro Urshan and even in my father's day, kept them for 50 years. these people getting the holy ghost in these mass services are often never seen again!

your thoughts

If I understand you, I think your concern is about a particular style of "evangelism." There is a name for it and someone will remember, but the term slips my mind. This is where the evangelist directly leads the "sinners" through a prayer of repentance - maybe even giving them a few moments to pour out their hearts- and then leads them into praise and encourages them to speak in tongues.

One feature of this style is that you often need a large number of "workers" out among the crowd to help keep individuals focused on prayer, repentance and such. These workers are then instructed (either before hand or right then from the pulpit) to wave their arms when their subject or "sinner" begins to speak in tongues.

The method was said to have first been developed in Thailand and then spread around the globe. The method or style is obviously dependant upon the veracity of those waving their hands. Some spectacular results have been reported over the years but many have been met with skepticism. Personally it's not my place to put people into or to exclude them from the kingdom, so I hesitate to judge. But we do need to always use discernment.

It may be that the meeting where you were on the platform just "didn't go well." I wouldn't know who to blame, God or those in attendance. I try to avoid blaming God because He always wins those arguments. In any case, it could be that the method is sound, but it just didn't come off right that night.

Or it could be that components of the method are flawed or that the whole approach is wrong. I'd have a hard time saying that the whole approach is flawed because if 100,000 are said to have received the Holy Ghost- surely at least hundreds did receive the "authentic gift." So maybe the problem is just with us. Maybe we're not using the gifts and Presence of God in the ways that we should; at least not all the time.

I agree with your statement - "aren't we suppose to let the person claim it ???" There should be some opportunity for the individual to profess their experience; not that they have to pass our judgment; but rather so that they can fulfill the scripture (Luke 12:8-9) and also out of personal respect to the individuals involved. Let them make their own claims of salvation, healing, deliverance or whatever they have experienced.

tell me if I am right or perhaps being too critical.

I think you're right to express some concern. I wasn't there so obviously I'm just taking your word for everything and seeing it from your viewpoint. I didn't notice an overly critical tone in your post, so no harm there. I'd just say chalk this up to experience. If the event had been such, what would you have done to change any of the things that happened? What would the possible outcome of your changes have been? In many ways we're all just feeling around like blind men trying to put a bridle on the Wind.

[Scott Hutchinson]

I feel that folks have to be in a condition to receive the Holy Ghost ,repentance should never be rushed through.
If God does a work in people's lives it will be real.
If someone can talk someone into something someone else can talk them out of it.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Thad

at a recent District event before the sermon, they had a preacher get up to do a holy ghost rally ,or mini Crusade that ended up taking a large part of the service .

Let me say, I want multitudes to get the holy ghost, but I have a serious Issue with some of the things that take place at these . I am asking your opinoins. tell me if I am right or perhaps being too critical.

I was on the platform and saw for myself People raising their hands and CLAIMING THE HOLY GHOST FOR THE PERSONS! aren't we suppose to let the person claim it ??? the Evangelist seemed eager to count yet another one as the numbers went higher and higher which made the crowd more and more excited.

furthermore, I have a problem with people coaxing people into getting the holy ghost. It has been my observation over the years that when people get the holy ghost out of pure inspiration , they don't last. the holy ghost that the saints received under Bro Urshan and even in my father's day, kept them for 50 years. these people getting the holy ghost in these mass services are often never seen again!

your thoughts

I honestly think we are so focused on performance that we preempt God and say someone received the baptism and spoke in tongues when in fact they did not. I also think, for the same reason, that we coax people into speaking in tongues often and they do...speak in tongues. But not genuinely.

I have seen people get in their ears and go "Say Hallelujah, Say halalalalalalalala, that's it just let it out, halalalalalalala, say it" and that person says it. Everyone rejoices and is jumping around and the person that got it looks bewildered and they never come back to our sevice.

I'd rather have someone coming and still seeking than someone that supposedly got it and never comes back thinking it was all hype just like they were told

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

I feel that folks have to be in a condition to receive the Holy Ghost ,repentance should never be rushed through.
If God does a work in people's lives it will be real.
If someone can talk someone into something someone else can talk them out of it.

You know Repentance is not something that takes several hours of snot sniveling prayer. The Methodist gave us that :-).It can be good for someone. And it genuinely happens. But many times a person that decides to come to church to begin with might already be repented. It's a change in attitude. A change in heart. One that says "ok I want to do things His way now"

[HangingOut]

My impression 10 years ago was that the crusades where an act of desperation for what is not happening at the local church level. I have seen the over zealous claim in smaller meetings. I knew one had missed it once and the supposed HG receiver was in a gay lifestyle not long after, which he was probably headed that way anyway. He never professed to having received the HG. Your concern has been shared by many.
So, for the sake of some success at these meetings, I guess you cut your losses at the potential misses? That is my question.

Originally Posted by Thad

at a recent District event before the sermon, they had a preacher get up to do a holy ghost rally ,or mini Crusade that ended up taking a large part of the service .

Let me say, I want multitudes to get the holy ghost, but I have a serious Issue with some of the things that take place at these . I am asking your opinoins. tell me if I am right or perhaps being too critical.

I was on the platform and saw for myself People raising their hands and CLAIMING THE HOLY GHOST FOR THE PERSONS! aren't we suppose to let the person claim it ??? the Evangelist seemed eager to count yet another one as the numbers went higher and higher which made the crowd more and more excited.

furthermore, I have a problem with people coaxing people into getting the holy ghost. It has been my observation over the years that when people get the holy ghost out of pure inspiration , they don't last. the holy ghost that the saints received under Bro Urshan and even in my father's day, kept them for 50 years. these people getting the holy ghost in these mass services are often never seen again!

your thoughts

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Thad

at a recent District event before the sermon, they had a preacher get up to do a holy ghost rally ,or mini Crusade that ended up taking a large part of the service .

Let me say, I want multitudes to get the holy ghost, but I have a serious Issue with some of the things that take place at these . I am asking your opinoins. tell me if I am right or perhaps being too critical.

I was on the platform and saw for myself People raising their hands and CLAIMING THE HOLY GHOST FOR THE PERSONS! aren't we suppose to let the person claim it ??? the Evangelist seemed eager to count yet another one as the numbers went higher and higher which made the crowd more and more excited.

furthermore, I have a problem with people coaxing people into getting the holy ghost. It has been my observation over the years that when people get the holy ghost out of pure inspiration , they don't last. the holy ghost that the saints received under Bro Urshan and even in my father's day, kept them for 50 years. these people getting the holy ghost in these mass services are often never seen again!

your thoughts

this topic is just too difficult for me to openly discuss in a public forum.

IMO, the worst of this manifestation of 'strange' in our fellowship is the way youth are TOLD they have received the Holy Ghost. To what ends? For what purpose?

There is no scripture instructing that:
...With stammering lips and a profession from an alter worker shall he speak unto his people saying, this is the refreshing"

thanks Thad for provoking a conversation. Where it goes...I have no idea.

[Nahum]

How sad that, in the year 2007, we are still using the word crusade as if it is a good thing.

People the word means the same thing as jihad!


Hello!!!!!

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

How sad that, in the year 2007, we are still using the word crusade as if it is a good thing.

People the word means the same thing as jihad!


Hello!!!!!

Please tell me what unbeliever would be drawn to any event that has the overarching message of:
1. conquest by armies commissioned by the Catholic church
2. jihad

It is a fascinating thing.
Word choices really do matter.
Why is it that a few dynamic evangelists in the late '80's and early 90's could reinstate this word?

Preacher after preacher will rail against the "Kingdom Now" message but then we slump back into this world conquest tone of the Kingdom of God.

I really don't get it.

But this in NOT THE TOPICAL FOCUS of Thad's thread!! Sorry Thad for any sideways bump.