Do Outward Standards Protect Inward Holiness?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by staysharp

It's extremely arrogant to think we could ever do anything in our flesh that would please God.

Everything we do is in our flesh otherwise we would be dead.

But if you mean the impetus of what we do or say when it comes from a carnal mind and not a spirit led mind, then I agree with you, anything we do through a carnal mind will not please God for a carnal mind is enmity with God. But I don't think this is what you're saying.

I would point to Jesus. Jesus always pleased God. The words He spoke and the things He did pleased God. Would you consider the actions and words of Jesus to be "anything in our flesh"? There are good works we can do that please God. I'm not saying that we can earn our salvation. I think for us to dress modestly pleases God. We dress modestly because of what God is doing in our heart. Am I arrogant for wanting to please God? Was Jesus arrogant for wanting to please God?

I hope I'm misunderstanding what you are saying.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Outward "standards" do absolutely NOTHING to protect inward holiness! Lord have mercy!! All one has to do is attend a GC and view all of the "painted on" ankle length dresses, which leave almost nothing to the imagination. Sorry for being so blunt, but it is the truth and most know it.

I've pastored for almost 25 yrs. 13 of which was a UPC church. My experience is that whether they are pants or long skirts, they have a tendency to be removed when there is no heart consecration. No holiness standard will EVER prevent that and never has.

Consecration is the ONLY deterrent for the "happy hormones!"

Inward holiness is only protected through a true relationship with Jesus Christ. Outside of that, it is just a whited wall! That is why so much "standard" preaching doesn't get the job done. Get them connected to a standard and they'll surely fall. Get them connected to Jesus and whether their hair is short or long, whether they wear a dress or slacks, make-up or not, and they will serve Him.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Everything we do is in our flesh otherwise we would be dead.

But if you mean the impetus of what we do or say when it comes from a carnal mind and not a spirit led mind, then I agree with you, anything we do through a carnal mind will not please God for a carnal mind is enmity with God. But I don't think this is what you're saying.

I would point to Jesus. Jesus always pleased God. The words He spoke and the things He did pleased God. Would you consider the actions and words of Jesus to be "anything in our flesh"? There are good works we can do that please God. I'm not saying that we can earn our salvation. I think for us to dress modestly pleases God. We dress modestly because of what God is doing in our heart. Am I arrogant for wanting to please God? Was Jesus arrogant for wanting to please God?

I hope I'm misunderstanding what you are saying.

Very good Mizpeh!

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Everything we do is in our flesh otherwise we would be dead.

But if you mean the impetus of what we do or say when it comes from a carnal mind and not a spirit led mind, then I agree with you, anything we do through a carnal mind will not please God for a carnal mind is enmity with God. But I don't think this is what you're saying.

I would point to Jesus. Jesus always pleased God. The words He spoke and the things He did pleased God. Would you consider the actions and words of Jesus to be "anything in our flesh"? There are good works we can do that please God. I'm not saying that we can earn our salvation. I think for us to dress modestly pleases God. We dress modestly because of what God is doing in our heart. Am I arrogant for wanting to please God? Was Jesus arrogant for wanting to please God?

I hope I'm misunderstanding what you are saying.

I am referring to "dead flesh". The flesh cannot please God as you have stated already. Flesh cannot glory in His presence.

[Sister Alvear]

We need to be careful what we say is holiness and what is not holiness. I think there is a famine for true holiness...not copycat so called holiness


Holiness is to be like God....to portray his character…His personality…to be like Him...The first belieers were called christians for they reminded the world of Him...

[Fiyahstarter]

The UPC has lost many good men (and has missed many opportunities).

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Acts 17:28 "For in him we live, and move, and have our being."

Our own "righteousness" is as filthy rags - when we try to go it alone.

We still have "outward" appearance to contend with after we have Christ in our inward parts. I Timothy 2:8-10.

(8) "I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. (9) In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; (10) But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works."

He begins with the "inward" in verse 8, but also gives instructions for the inward to match the outward.

I believe this PO and as a whole, the upc is seriously lacking in this area..

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Outward "standards" do absolutely NOTHING to protect inward holiness! Lord have mercy!! All one has to do is attend a GC and view all of the "painted on" ankle length dresses, which leave almost nothing to the imagination. Sorry for being so blunt, but it is the truth and most know it.

I've pastored for almost 25 yrs. 13 of which was a UPC church. My experience is that whether they are pants or long skirts, they have a tendency to be removed when there is no heart consecration. No holiness standard will EVER prevent that and never has.

Consecration is the ONLY deterrent for the "happy hormones!".

In addition to immodest, there is expensive, hip and often outlandish clothing... big hairdo's with all the jewelry you ever want to see in the hair, attached to shoes, purses or clothing... God forbid it would ever be worn on a chain...


Born and bred in the UPC, but seriously the inconsistancies are glaring to me... and I am sure to others.

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Inward holiness is only protected through a true relationship with Jesus Christ. Outside of that, it is just a whited wall! That is why so much "standard" preaching doesn't get the job done. Get them connected to a standard and they'll surely fall. Get them connected to Jesus and whether their hair is short or long, whether they wear a dress or slacks, make-up or not, and they will serve Him.

Amen, truly the church needs to get back to inward holiness and allow it to manifest itself on the outside with modesty and moderation.

To me, standards only "protect" or keep those who don't have a relationship with God... what I mean by that is....

I was told by a young woman a couple of weeks ago, the reason she sings in the choir is so she "has" to follow standards... it keeps her from going places and doing things a Christian shouldn't... it is a committment to church/choir that keeps her from "sinning". Another man (who is 36) spoke up and said "yeah me too". I have to say I just sat there and couldn't find anything to say... shocked me actually... my mind kinda froze... but in my heart, I was saddened... whatever happened to "I serve the Lord because I love him and I want to do what is right and pleasing to him".

It is a lack of relationship.

[Sister Alvear]

Jesus said only what the father told him to say...He was one with God...and we are to be one with our brothers and sisters...If they exclude us from their circles that is their problem but we must love and be kind to everyone...that does not make us "greasy charismatic’s” (a term I leaned here on the forum) love makes us like Jesus not our sleeve length. I am writing this in the hot interior of northeast Brazil and yes my sleeves are long… and there is not an air conditioner or even a fan… so I do not speak as one who is outside the UC’s camp however I speak as an old mother in Israel with 40 years on the mission field.
There will be people that will never have a long sleeve shirt or whatever but they have God’s spirit within them and they are my brother and sister.
I think we should have some common sense...to say someone is not my brother because we can see an elbow is foolish...

[Sister Alvear]

God's people hae always been different from the world. We have higher standards than the world...

[Scott Hutchinson]

We should be modest in outward appearance,but Holiness goes from the inner to the outer man.
Muslims dress modest and have standards but they are not saved,because they don't believe in Jesus Christ.
See one can look like a lamb outwardly but inside have a wolf nature.